What does a student need to practice everyday?

[plumblossom]

Hi!  I am just wondering what makes a good practice, and what needs to be practice everyday?  I am a violin student too, and I can't afford piano lessons right now (i can't afford either, so I am fair to the piano).  When we practice the violin, we will practice scales, and etudes, and whatever techniques we might be working on, and our solo piece.  How about piano practice?  

[adodd81802]

Hi Plumblossom, this has been answered 100's of times, best bet is to look through the forum, there's no one answer.

The biggest difference between the two that I can imagine is there are probably a lot more "wrong" ways to play the piano than there are the Violin, ensure you are comfortable and without tension, from the height of your stool down to the curve of your fingers. Have a goal in mind every session and make it realistic within the time frame of your practice.

[dogperson]

Hi Plumblossom

From your introductory post, it appears that you are using Suziki method to teach yourself piano.  I am hopeful that piano teachers will weigh in on whether this is the right method for a self-teaching adult

In the meantime, you might want to look at this discussion thread re Suziki and piano
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=20539.0

I learned theory back un the dark ages with a teacher and the 'old style' method books, so I have no experience with the newer options.  Perhaps others will help with their experience as well.  Two I have seen recommended are 'Alfreds All-in-one for Adults' and 'Faber'

https://www.amazon.com/Adult-All-In-One-Course-Lesson-Theory-Technic-Level/dp/0882848186

Faber has different books for the same level: i.e., lesson, theory, performance.

[plumblossom]

Hi dogperson, I am not exactly doing the Suzuki method, as this method focuses on listening, and having parents involved, and it's tended for little children.  I am just using it for repertoire.  I like the pieces from the books so far, and it's just something I am a format that I am familiar with.  I don't listen to the CD and learn by ears.  I play from the sheet music.

[dogperson]

Hi dogperson, I am not exactly doing the Suzuki method, as this method focuses on listening, and having parents involved, and it's tended for little children.  I am just using it for repertoire.  I like the pieces from the books so far, and it's just something I am a format that I am familiar with.  I don't listen to the CD and learn by ears.  I play from the sheet music.

It is impossible for me to offer complete advice based on the information you have added so maybe others can add. I began piano first, with instruction, and the added strings, also with instruction so my background is different-- and long ago.   You state you are playing the Suzuki because you like the music, but I would suggest switching to a more structured series where the music is tied to specific skills that are needed  and use the Suzuki as additional material.

Certainly, HS and HT scales and chords would be helpful as part of your routine.  You need to learn hand independence: i.e., loud in RH, soft in LH, or staccato in RH, legato in left.  A structured method will add the structure you need for daily practice.

[plumblossom]

I had briefly looked at Alfred Piano Book years ago, I didn't like that it was all colorfully printed, and that's partly the reason I don't want to use that book.  Suzuki is more like a repertoire book.  I have looked through them, every piece seems to have some kind of techniques goal to work on, such as left hand legato while right hand plays staccato etc.  I will try to look into other beginner music book.  You think you have any recommendations?

[dogperson]

I had briefly looked at Alfred Piano Book years ago, I didn't like that it was all colorfully printed, and that's partly the reason I don't want to use that book.  Suzuki is more like a repertoire book.  I have looked through them, every piece seems to have some kind of techniques goal to work on, such as left hand legato while right hand plays staccato etc.  I will try to look into other beginner music book.  You think you have any recommendations?

I recommended two in my earlier post--- with a link
Alfred's for Adults is not the same as Alfreds.

[keypeg]

I recommended two in my earlier post--- with a link
Alfred's for Adults is not the same as Alfreds.

From all I've learned in the past, I'd lean for the non-adults one as being more thorough.  But I haven't actually worked with these books.  If you prefer the "for Adults" one, can you explain why?  (Thx )

[dogperson]

From all I've learned in the past, I'd lean for the non-adults one as being more thorough.  But I haven't actually worked with these books.  If you prefer the "for Adults" one, can you explain why?  (Thx )

As per my first post, I was a child when learning, so adult series books were not appropriate- nor I doubt even available.   These are two series that have been recommended by adult beginners, some of whom are self-taught.

If you have a music store in your area, go take a look.

There just needs to be structure and a plan for an adult who states they want to learn theory and will be self-taught.

[keypeg]

As per my first post, I was a child when learning, so adult series books were not appropriate- nor I doubt even available.   These are two series that have been recommended by adult beginners, some of whom are self-taught.

If you have a music store in your area, go take a look.

There just needs to be structure and a plan for an adult who states they want to learn theory and will be self-taught.

This is to orient myself, rather than any kind of criticism: The first thing I understand is that you yourself did not start as an adult beginner, and maybe you also did not work with books for adults for that reason - is that correct?   And your recommendation is based on what you have seen being recommended, rather than your own experience with these books or comparing them?

I had a look on-line at samples of the adult and non-adult series a few years back.  I did not like what I saw in the adult books comparatively, and later comments by some adult student  confirmed my impressions.  Several adults said their teachers had recommended they get the non-adult version because it was more thorough.  Several adult students made the same choice for the same reason.

I don't know if what I looked at was Alfred or another series.  The premise of some of these books is that adults want to go fast, do not want to work in details, want to play their favourite music and get at it fast.  What I saw was a whole list of what be considered "beloved music", "favourite tunes" and what an older age group might like.  When I looked at the non-adult series, there were extra books teaching technique, teaching theory thoroughly and hands-on rather than intellectually, and giving the kind of groundwork that I would want to have.  What I saw in these other books seemed to be missing in the "adult" books.

This is my reasoning.  But I have not actually gone into a music store and browsed through these books physically.

here just needs to be structure and a plan for an adult who states they want to learn theory and will be self-taught.

I agree totally with you on this.  But for that plan and structure personally I would lean toward the non-adult books.

[dogperson]

Hi Plumblossom



I learned theory back un the dark ages with a teacher and the 'old style' method books, so I have no experience with the newer options.  Perhaps others will help with their experience as well.  Two I have seen recommended are 'Alfreds All-in-one for Adults

[dcstudio]

No... not the Alfred all in one adult course...  

I have never seen anyone succeed with it.  Seriously, and not just among my personal students but those of other teachers as well.

It is both vague and like... condescending..  the wording is just a step above the kids books..  It was the standard issue adult method book at the studio I used to work at.   If I didn't supplement it immediately with other material the student would lose interest after one or two lessons.  Adult beginners have usually been fantasizing about playing the piano for quite some time before they decide to have lessons.   Sometimes they would come in after attempting to teach themselves from that series..   they would almost always have terrible technique issues and no understanding of the music or any of the concepts in that entire set of books... they just figured out O Susanna! or House of the Rising Sun and figured that was the lesson and moved on...  They were almost always convinced that they  played several levels above where they really were because all they did was go over the sample tunes in the book... they learned to play the song but somehow didn't retain the lesson it was supposed to teach them.  Then, of course, the book's samples became too difficult to figure out without understanding the lessons that had come before.. so they quit or get lessons.
 These are always the hardest people to teach...  



as a side note... after 4 years of having to use that book for every teenager and adult beginner I taught.... I really never want to hear "House of the Rising Sun" again... like... EVER  which is a shame because it used to be one of my favorite tunes.  

Method books... help the TEACHER more than the student.   Teaching 45+ lessons a week is a real time muncher... to have to plan out a lesson would only add more time to an already busy week.  Method books were pretty much invented to serve this purpose... it makes one feel as if a lesson has been taught... and no preparation or personalized material is required.

whether or not it's what's best for the student at that point doesn't even come into play.

that's why really all of them suck.  lol.

[CC]

Your first job is to decide what musics you want to learn to play, and roughly order them according to difficulty.  There is no such thing as daily practice routine, those old piano teaching methods are now obsolete (thank god!  Have you ever heard of Mozart doing daily exercises?) because you have to learn to design your own routines to satisfy your daily needs. A good piano teacher should do all that for you, but there is no reason why you can't do them yourself. First, you need to know the practice methods used to design practice routines; I have written a free downloadable book listing them, see my web link below, go to 3rd edition.

Important: no exercises, no "technical development material" like Czerny, or Adult Thompson, etc., just practice pieces you want in your repertoire, which will be completely memorized and performable at any time -- isn't that the definition of a pianist?? Especially with your violin experience (by the way, I think every violinist must learn piano which is MUCH easier than violin), you probably don't need any of those piano starter books, although you might skim through them quickly, picking up only those points specifically for piano such as fingerings and uses of chords and harmony. It is not easy doing all this on your own, so you might pick up a book that comes closest to having a teacher, which is Humphries, reviewed in my book with links. Of course, you have to learn how to practice, but you can do that as you practice each piece of performable music you learn better than you can with exercises or Czerny that can't be performed.

[pianocat3]

dcstudio, I learned out of the Alfred adult books after having some lessons as a kid. But I played a lot of stuff on the side and my teachers gave me other stuff to work on eg sonatinas etc. LOL on House of the Rising Sun. I enjoyed that one! What I didn't like is I was really weak on left hand work from Alfred imo. My teacher has me doing Chopin's revolutionary etude now and my lazy left hand is cured forever! I think you are right though because my teacher has probably taught over 30 years and she said "aha! I KNEW adults could learn piano if they took the time to practice" so I wonder if I am her first to move along this far. I had no idea it would take so much time.

As for the OP, I do my scales I a currently working on like 4X a week, probably should do a few every day, but I don't. It is a good warmup, I don't spend a lot of time on them. once or twice a week I review old stuff for an hour or so so I have some things polished up to play if someone requests it and otherwise, I chip away at my assigned work most every day. I take a day off every week it usually turns out. I usually spend a couple days working on my own projects too for like a half hour, pieces that weren't assigned and I just like them. I have to say I always did it this way, except I was much sloppier about it as a beginner and I am putting in a lot of time now, 1 1/2 hours most days. I follow the advice in various posts here and on piano teacher blogs on how to be efficient in my practice time too. That really helped me.

I liked going over the the University of Iowa piano pedagogy project and finding easier classical pieces too, stuff I could get free online. That helped a lot before I signed up for lessons again. With a teacher, I got pushed into harder stuff and it turned out I probably didn't push myself hard enough because I rose to the occasion, so that was a time waster but I really liked Wild Horseman and First Loss and other more "beginner" stuff. All free!

I have to say without a teacher it is easy to develop some sloppy habits. Like I got really sloppy about looking at my hands to find notes on the keyboard, not observing rests, not noticing legato markings, Oh, was that a tie? OOPS! etc. Some people get really muddy not pedaling enough etc. and there are all the things about how to play musically and not just get the notes and timing right.

good luck!

[briansaddleback]

I consider myself a student of the piano. My practice regiment is always metamorphosing however recently it is consisting of:

scales work
exercises from Schaum Finger Power IV
Czerny 299/740 items
Chopin etude(s) that I am currently working on
dabble in some other new pieces or pieces I am trying to learn/get into my fingers/pieces I am curious about.

the bulk of the time of practice is spent on etudes at the moment along w the czerny.
However, I dont really measure out time, some days I spend a good ten minutes on scales and other days I may sit down and really try to hash out the minor scales and fluidity problems of certain major scales like D major for my left hand for instance. so I may spend  a half hour there.


For ME, scales work /Schaum /Czerny has been indispensible in my progress in pianistic technique and ability.
Other than scales and schaum, any piece I work on in czerny or Chopin has to be a piece I really adore or can grow into season to really like. This is key to my perseverance in the piece(s)