Chopin Sonata 3 Movement 4, Bach Prelude and Fugue C# major - Uri Zafrir

[urizaf]

Hi guys, my name is Uri Zafrir, i am 23 years old pianist and future conductor from israel, currently finishing my last year of degree with prof' arie vardi in university of tel aviv, Israel.
I am currently during my transitionary years into being also a conductor.
Nevertheless, my love for piano intensifies, and i regularely prepare pieces by myself and record them.
please check out the following links. I will be happy to get feedback!

&feature=youtu.be
Uri

[urizaf]

no comments? is it too dull?

[kawai_cs]

Hi, thanks for sharing. I admire your skills - great. I am jealous;-)
If it were an amateur playing this I would not expect as much as I expect from a pro like you. You are playing this like some polka or bagatelle. This piece is very intense and dramatic, you cannot just plainly play the notes!

[birba]

Well, i hope you can breathe more life into your music with your conducting then you did with the piano here.  I think no one responded because there's nothing really to say.  You have fleet fingers, that's for sure.  You should put them to better use.  The bach prelude was a string of notes at top speed (perhaps too fast).  Period.  The fugue was very neatly played without the joy.  I feel it like a country dance.  Your phrasing is exactly how i would play it.  But there's no spring to it.
As far as the chopin goes, i have to agree with the previous post.  There was not one ounce of pathos.  After the incredible dramatic opening, chopin moves to this contrasting noble victorious motif, and you played it like it was nothing.  Flippant and superficial.
Sorry, i don't mix words.  I would have left it without saying anything, but you asked.

[suethemoon]

Outstanding job for a 1.5 weeks of learning (from scratch I assume). I guess its just developing further with ideas regarding to structure, placement of dynamics etc.
Personally I find listening to any single movement of an entire sonata a bit difficult to interpret as it is only a section of an entire work. Hopefully you can upload another recording in the future!

[iamazombie911]

That is f*cking ridiculous for 1.5 weeks. However, I'm sure you know you have a lot to work on I understand that you have only played this for a very short time, but I'm just going to throw out all the criticism I can think of on the spot, so don't get me wrong, it sounds amazing still!!!  (These are only comments for the Chopin, and also, I didn't have the music in front of me while I was listening, so the page numbers might be off...)

Beginning: Sneak in more, can be more expressive
1st/2nd page: You can do a lot with the bass line, you should emphasize the chromatic lines - they could be more painful in emotion. Also, make sure not to bang out the melody line.
3rd/4th page: Make sure not to let notes stick out, like that LH chord at around 1:13. LH melody lines should be emphasized more - they are the main melody! Very nice leggiero section.
5/6th page: Not enough expression, can do a lot more with dynamic contrast/expression/rubato.
7/8th page: I think the transitions between the sections are a little too rushed, makes it sound dull because it all sounds the same.
9/10th page: Make sure the leggiero is actually leggiero.
11/12th page: Not many complaints here.
13/14th page: Melody is too banged out.
15/16th page: This isn't Liszt! Don't focus on virtuosity, make it chopin-esque.
17/18th page: Too rushed. More exciting if you do more with tempo. Good ending.

Outstanding work! You should play the whole thing, it's one of those pieces that feels like it will stick with you forever!

[urizaf]

well, there is a simple matter with all the criticism i have recieved here. for almost my entire adult life, i have recieved the same criticism for my playing. mainly, i am playing the notes in a simplistic way. for most people, there is something missing. some expression. However, i play the music as I feel it to be, which is principles at work. for this reason i believe i was never first place at competitions, always second place.
It is something i have learned to accept. I feel the music not as a pianist, but as principles.
I guess I have to work on my emotional side. Make every bit of music more meaningfull.

However, It always feels to me that for the music to be beautifull all it needs is to be played with little rubato, with the right tempo and the right articulation and dynamics. I see many performers trying to get the music to express more than it has in it's guts, and as far as i see it, that's a mistake in the objective of musical interpretation, which is to present the content or "meaning" of the music in it's raw and simple form.

I think it's an important debate in musical performance.

[torandrekongelf]

Super great! Really awesome! Just continue on what you are doing and never stop. Thanks alot

[iamazombie911]

well, there is a simple matter with all the criticism i have recieved here. for almost my entire adult life, i have recieved the same criticism for my playing. mainly, i am playing the notes in a simplistic way. for most people, there is something missing. some expression. However, i play the music as I feel it to be, which is principles at work. for this reason i believe i was never first place at competitions, always second place.
It is something i have learned to accept. I feel the music not as a pianist, but as principles.
I guess I have to work on my emotional side. Make every bit of music more meaningfull.

However, It always feels to me that for the music to be beautifull all it needs is to be played with little rubato, with the right tempo and the right articulation and dynamics. I see many performers trying to get the music to express more than it has in it's guts, and as far as i see it, that's a mistake in the objective of musical interpretation, which is to present the content or "meaning" of the music in it's raw and simple form.

I think it's an important debate in musical performance.

While you may think it to be one way,you have to keep the stylistic traits in place. Again, I understand that you have not worked on it very long, andI think it will turn out great.

[dcstudio]

PS etiquette:   my friend, many here are hobby students and many are quite serious--as you are.    those who are hobbyists are treated with kind encouragement--most of the time... lol.   

however, those who are at university, who have the training, who have the chops and are aspiring to a career... those members are held to very high standards here.  It is because out there in the real world...life is damn tough for a working pianist.    Birba is far and away one of the greatest players and most respected members here at PS--to receive any comment from him... means you have some real potential...  if not he wouldn't have bothered.

Post your best work here--like maybe your junior or senior recital--there is some serious experience around here,  they want to see the finished product... unless of course you are posting about a specific problem you are having with a specific piece and you would like help.

looking forward to the performance vids. 

[urizaf]

well let me tell you what i believe. I believe classical music has been ruined by competitions. It's not about style, it's not about being right and playing the right notes, it's about saying what you have to say, if you have something to say. Liszt played bach with pedal. he tried to find what bach meant to him.
In our period of time a pianist is measured by the amount and quality of competitions he wins. In a competition you have to play in order to satisfy most of the judges. So correctness is more important than originality.
As much as i would like to have a musical career, which i do, it is far more important for me to say what i have to say than to try to stick to the norm of piano playing for competitions. It's way more interesting my way.
It's the same way in any field. Most people stick to the norm cause it's the safest. But to truely be original you have to study the norm, be able to act like it, and then go with your own way and convince people you are right. this is the meaning of being an artist...

[torandrekongelf]

well let me tell you what i believe. I believe classical music has been ruined by competitions. It's not about style, it's not about being right and playing the right notes, it's about saying what you have to say, if you have something to say. Liszt played bach with pedal. he tried to find what bach meant to him.
In our period of time a pianist is measured by the amount and quality of competitions he wins. In a competition you have to play in order to satisfy most of the judges. So correctness is more important than originality.
As much as i would like to have a musical career, which i do, it is far more important for me to say what i have to say than to try to stick to the norm of piano playing for competitions. It's way more interesting my way.
It's the same way in any field. Most people stick to the norm cause it's the safest. But to truely be original you have to study the norm, be able to act like it, and then go with your own way and convince people you are right. this is the meaning of being an artist...

This! I totally agree with you!

[torandrekongelf]

That is f*cking ridiculous for 1.5 weeks. However, I'm sure you know you have a lot to work on I understand that you have only played this for a very short time, but I'm just going to throw out all the criticism I can think of on the spot, so don't get me wrong, it sounds amazing still!!!  (These are only comments for the Chopin, and also, I didn't have the music in front of me while I was listening, so the page numbers might be off...)

Beginning: Sneak in more, can be more expressive
1st/2nd page: You can do a lot with the bass line, you should emphasize the chromatic lines - they could be more painful in emotion. Also, make sure not to bang out the melody line.
3rd/4th page: Make sure not to let notes stick out, like that LH chord at around 1:13. LH melody lines should be emphasized more - they are the main melody! Very nice leggiero section.
5/6th page: Not enough expression, can do a lot more with dynamic contrast/expression/rubato.
7/8th page: I think the transitions between the sections are a little too rushed, makes it sound dull because it all sounds the same.
9/10th page: Make sure the leggiero is actually leggiero.
11/12th page: Not many complaints here.
13/14th page: Melody is too banged out.
15/16th page: This isn't Liszt! Don't focus on virtuosity, make it chopin-esque.
17/18th page: Too rushed. More exciting if you do more with tempo. Good ending.

Outstanding work! You should play the whole thing, it's one of those pieces that feels like it will stick with you forever!

Is this mostly your interpretation against his own?

[dcstudio]

well let me tell you what i believe. I believe classical music has been ruined by competitions. It's not about style, it's not about being right and playing the right notes, it's about saying what you have to say, if you have something to say. Liszt played bach with pedal. he tried to find what bach meant to him.
In our period of time a pianist is measured by the amount and quality of competitions he wins. In a competition you have to play in order to satisfy most of the judges. So correctness is more important than originality.
As much as i would like to have a musical career, which i do, it is far more important for me to say what i have to say than to try to stick to the norm of piano playing for competitions. It's way more interesting my way.
It's the same way in any field. Most people stick to the norm cause it's the safest. But to truely be original you have to study the norm, be able to act like it, and then go with your own way and convince people you are right. this is the meaning of being an artist...

I couldn't agree with you more... but music is a business.  If you are lucky enough to be paid to play then most, if not all, of your paychecks will be signed by persons who do not take into consideration your talent, correctness, or originality-- only your marketability... I speak from experience.  My point is simply that the most original...and the most technically correct pianists and conductors--still have to deal with the bean counters.

your reception here, though not overwhelming, has been positive for the most part..  click on some of the other performance vids and you will find some down right ugly posts.  



  and I would still like to see your recital vids.

[kawai_cs]

well let me tell you what i believe. I believe classical music has been ruined by competitions. It's not about style, it's not about being right and playing the right notes, it's about saying what you have to say, if you have something to say. Liszt played bach with pedal. he tried to find what bach meant to him.
In our period of time a pianist is measured by the amount and quality of competitions he wins. In a competition you have to play in order to satisfy most of the judges. So correctness is more important than originality.

I allow myself to disagree with this. I do think that competition raise the standard of playing - if you want to compete you need to have mastered your craft plus you need to be very accurate about the works you are playing (style) plus you need to offer some certain extra something, which makes your music unique but still in a way that is compliant with the style of the composer and musical period.
I think we definitely need competitions for that otherwise, if pianists were just playing "what they have to say" our grandchildren would never have a chance to experience live performance of Chopin's music as it is supposed to sound which is cultivated by e.g. International Chopin Competition in Warsaw.

[iamazombie911]

If you play in whatever style you want, just because you think it sounds better, you don't respect what the composer wanted.

[urizaf]

well i am a bit convinced so in my next vids ill try to implement some of the tips i recieved here.. there is something right about it. thx

[suethemoon]

I personally see competitions the best environment to share the music in which you feel like.
Also it's better to keep an open eye in terms of interpretation.
I find many pianists far too close-minded and feel there is only one way of interpretation such as iamazombie's comments.
TBH most great pianists are very accepting of approaches to music as long it makes some sort of sense to the composer and must be delivered very well. There is a reason top pianists have their own individuality.
To say that correctness is more important than originality I feel is a grey area as to win a competition, one needs to bring both to actually achieve.

[chopinlover01]

I didn't think the Chopin was horrible. You're clearly technically there, it just needs more power in the right places.
My recommendation would be to find a favorite interpretation and try to imitate it for the time being, changing some things to fit your liking as you go. My recommendations would be Rubinstein, Zimerman, and Cortot.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I listened to the Chopin. I am very conflicted.

well let me tell you what i believe. I believe classical music has been ruined by competitions. It's not about style, it's not about being right and playing the right notes, it's about saying what you have to say, if you have something to say. Liszt played bach with pedal. he tried to find what bach meant to him.
In our period of time a pianist is measured by the amount and quality of competitions he wins. In a competition you have to play in order to satisfy most of the judges. So correctness is more important than originality.
As much as i would like to have a musical career, which i do, it is far more important for me to say what i have to say than to try to stick to the norm of piano playing for competitions. It's way more interesting my way.
It's the same way in any field. Most people stick to the norm cause it's the safest. But to truely be original you have to study the norm, be able to act like it, and then go with your own way and convince people you are right. this is the meaning of being an artist...

I do not think I could agree more completely with this.

Unfortunately I don't think the Chopin lives up to those fine words. It's technically good, and almost very good, but I don't think there's a lot of musical expression behind it. I like the propulsive aspects and the drive, but it should be more shaped, whilst remaining natural. It came across as a bit glib, for me at least. The piano is a bit iffy also. I would like to hear it on a good piano in a month's time; by then it has the capacity to be excellent.

[visitor]

I couldn't agree with you more... but music is a business.  If you are lucky enough to be paid to play then most, if not all, of your paychecks will be signed by persons who do not take into consideration your talent, correctness, or originality-- only your marketability... I speak from experience.  My point is simply that the most original...and the most technically correct pianists and conductors--still have to deal with the bean counters.

+1.  business is about turning a profit. business that doesn't make money is just a hobby.  and a hobby business that loses money long enough will eventually close and go out of business. then the joy, beauty, mission of that business fails, because it is no longer in business it no longer serves its customer, because it didn't make money. 

[urizaf]

anyway, thx for the comments. i've played these two to a friend, he gave me a lesson, and suddenly i see how much work there is to be done. it was very rewarding to hear the comments, i hope to record soon and put here. Thx!

[rubinsteinmad]

Well, i hope you can breathe more life into your music with your conducting then you did with the piano here.  I think no one responded because there's nothing really to say.  You have fleet fingers, that's for sure.  You should put them to better use.  The bach prelude was a string of notes at top speed (perhaps too fast).  Period.  The fugue was very neatly played without the joy.  I feel it like a country dance.  Your phrasing is exactly how i would play it.  But there's no spring to it.
As far as the chopin goes, i have to agree with the previous post.  There was not one ounce of pathos.  After the incredible dramatic opening, chopin moves to this contrasting noble victorious motif, and you played it like it was nothing.  Flippant and superficial.
Sorry, i don't mix words.  I would have left it without saying anything, but you asked.

Whoa there! Did you have a bad day, birba? I haven't seen you in such a seemingly bad mood!

[rubinsteinmad]

Personally, I think the Chopin was gorgeous. (I didnt listen to the Bach yet.)
Maybe you could record it on a concert piano, so we could hear you at your full potential? Of course, it was amazing already.

You don't have to feel bad! Over here in America, there are very few aspiring pianists who play as emotional as you do (and I mean it!) But in the Eastern Hemisphere, I guess the standard is much higher, and that is why you've been critisized so much.