Is this normal for teachers?

[c_minor]

Hi everyone, new member here.

I recently got a teacher after around 12 years of not having formal lessons (I tried self-study for 3 years but I was not progressing much). We have just finished our fourth lesson and I think the pacing of the lessons is too fast. On the third lesson, my teacher already gave me Clementi's Sonatina Op. 36 No. 1 to study. After playing for him on the fourth lesson, he gave me some feedback then assigned the next sonatina. I am quite nervous since along with those two pieces, I also need to play some pieces from the Op.599 Etudes by Czerny and all the major scales in four octaves. Also, I would not consider my first sonatina polished yet.

Just wondering if this is normal. Thanks. 

[dcstudio]

Hi everyone, new member here.

I recently got a teacher after around 12 years of not having formal lessons (I tried self-study for 3 years but I was not progressing much). We have just finished our fourth lesson and I think the pacing of the lessons is too fast. On the third lesson, my teacher already gave me Clementi's Sonatina Op. 36 No. 1 to study. After playing for him on the fourth lesson, he gave me some feedback then assigned the next sonatina. I am quite nervous since along with those two pieces, I also need to play some pieces from the Op.599 Etudes by Czerny and all the major scales in four octaves. Also, I would not consider my first sonatina polished yet.

Just wondering if this is normal. Thanks.  

so why do you think you need to play the Czerny and all the major scales?--(but not the minor ones?)  You are claiming to have more expertise in this area than your teacher...  don't get me wrong... it's good to ask questions...

I am curious as to who defined "proper piano learning" for you with the above parameters?  

your post sets up an equation in your head that goes something like

"Normal" = assigning Czerny + (all 12 major scales x 4 )+ recognizing that my sonata isn't polished and making me work on it more +not moving "too" fast + not making me nervous about my pieces.

 I can assure you that every student has their own unique equation and their own definition of "normal" or "proper" piano teaching.  Sometimes they are somewhat accurate but often times they are not.  Trust your teacher...you have only had 4 lessons give it time.  If you don't like him personally... find another teacher.

[kawai_cs]

Also, I would not consider my first sonatina polished yet.

Just wondering if this is normal. Thanks. 

I guess not every piece must be polished in the process of learning. I have played a lot of pieces with my 1st and 2nd teacher without polishing them to performance level.
When your teacher assigns you a new piece they mostly have goal that needs to be achieved e.g. keeping your wrists flexible while playing fast arpeggios. When it is achieved they may want to move on to another assignment because you have learned the skill you were supposed to.

[c_minor]

so why do you think you need to play the Czerny and all the major scales?--(but not the minor ones?)  You are claiming to have more expertise in this area than your teacher...  don't get me wrong... it's good to ask questions...

I am curious as to who defined "proper piano learning" for you with the above parameters? 

your post sets up an equation in your head that goes something like

"Normal" = assigning Czerny + (all 12 major scales x 4 )+ recognizing that my sonata isn't polished and making me work on it more +not moving "too" fast + not making me nervous about my pieces.

 I can assure you that every student has their own unique equation and their own definition of "normal" or "proper" piano teaching.  Sometimes they are somewhat accurate but often times they are not.  Trust your teacher...you have only had 4 lessons give it time.   If you don't like him personally... find another teacher.

Sorry, it was not my intention to claim that I have more expertise than my teacher.. I just feel that I might not be good enough for my teacher since I find the lessons fast.

You're right, I should trust my teacher and give it some time.

Thanks for the input everyone. 

[dcstudio]

asking questions is a good thing.    and I know that in no way do you think you know more about the piano than your teacher. 

I just wanted you to see your logic as you had stated it, that's all.  You are also free to keep polishing those Sonatinas independently now that your teacher has moved you forward.  You don't have to just stop playing those pieces.    if you are not satisfied with them...then keep working on them.

[keypeg]

changed my mind

[keypeg]

After playing for him on the fourth lesson, he gave me some feedback then assigned the next sonatina.

Some questions along this:
You say you got feedback on the fourth lesson.  Were you told how to approach the piece, what kinds of things to work toward in the piece or skill-wise, in the first three lessons?  What kind of feedback did you get?  If it involved corrections, do you know how to correct it?

I am quite nervous since along with those two pieces, I also need to play some pieces from the Op.599 Etudes by Czerny and all the major scales in four octaves.

You have had only four lessons and you are doing a number of Czerny pieces (how many)?  Have you been taught how to approach them?  Do you feel capable of doing them.  Do you already know how to do all the major scales, including in four octaves?  Do you play them well, without tension?  Have you had feedback on them yet?

Have you ever discussed goals with your teacher.

Also, I would not consider my first sonatina polished yet.

That part does not concern me.  The purpose of working on a piece is not necessarily in order to polish it like if you are preparing it for a performance.  It is in order to get whatever skills and sort of second-hand music theory that comes from working on it.

[keypeg]

so why do you think you need to play the Czerny and all the major scales?--(but not the minor ones?)  

I thought this is what was assigned by the teacher.  Did I get it wrong?

[dcstudio]

I thought this is what was assigned by the teacher.  Did I get it wrong?

you know... I don't know...  I kind of thought he was saying he needed to play some Czerny and all 12 major scales in 4 octaves and his teacher didn't assign it-- chronologically that appeared with the list of complaints in his post...hmmmm....  like someone told him that "a good teacher makes you play all 12 major scales in 4 octaves and will assign Czerny" and his teacher didn't so --is this normal?  I need to play this... yet my teacher didn't assign it... type thing...   (I have heard this kind of spiel from adult students quite a bit, especially in reference to their last teacher-- )

Reading the OP again though... it could mean the teacher did assign it ... and that would make my well-thought out clever equation completely invalid now wouldn't it...lol

[keypeg]

Well you did better than me - I ditched my entire first post because it was based entirely on assumptions and written in haste and peppered with feelings from my own past.  Hardly objective. 

Thoughts:
When I first looked into it, quite a few teachers were saying that they don't actually quite know how to approach adult students because it's a new phenomenon and there is no template.  That's a reality right off the bat.  It gets more complicated if someone had lessons years before (with who knows what quality of teacher), or self-taught first, or even if they had lessons on another instrument before because then there are assumptions about what the student "already knows". (Will blowing notes on a tuba help you dance your fingers over a keyboard?)  Just to say that a lot can go amiss.

If I were to start lessons tomorrow in one of those scenarios, I would want the teacher to go for skills.  If I've played in the past / am self taught - what am I doing right, and wrong, what am I missing, what do I need to know / be able to do?  And go on from there.  Those would be my goals, and I'd need to share them, because a new teacher doesn't necessarily think that way.  Or might not dare think that way in case the student just wants to go along some kind of fast track (which doesn't work imho).

There is another way that a teacher might go about it.  That is: "What grade level did you last play at?  Grade 6?  Ok, let's go through grade 6 pieces and go on from there."  Instead of checking what skills and knowledge are there or not there, where the weaknesses and strengths are, this kind of teacher goes through repertoire at a given level and pushes it through.  This might explain the level of the pieces in a period of only 4 weeks, all those scales, and all those pieces.  That is one way of teaching, apparently.

Long story short - I think that this long list of things to do represents what the teacher is assigning.  Personally I would be uncomfortable about that.  I'd want to discuss what the goals are.

[c_minor]

You say you got feedback on the fourth lesson.  Were you told how to approach the piece, what kinds of things to work toward in the piece or skill-wise, in the first three lessons?  What kind of feedback did you get?  If it involved corrections, do you know how to correct it?

I was not told how to approach the first sonatina. My teacher wanted me to study the notes first. The feedback I received was more concerned with the musical aspects of my playing (e.g. bring out the melody more, watch the rhythm in the second movement, contrast dynamics, etc..). What he does is demonstrate how to do those things, and ask me to repeat.

You have had only four lessons and you are doing a number of Czerny pieces (how many)?  Have you been taught how to approach them?  Do you feel capable of doing them.  Do you already know how to do all the major scales, including in four octaves?  Do you play them well, without tension?  Have you had feedback on them yet?

Currently, I'm doing numbers 11-18. His approach is the same with the sonatinas (study, give feedback, demonstrate). For the scales, I can't say if I play them well since I don't receive much feedback (he comments when my fingers are not rounded or when he sees tension).

Have you ever discussed goals with your teacher.

Not really. Though I did say that I was only playing for leisure.

I thought this is what was assigned by the teacher.  Did I get it wrong?

No. It seems that I also need to work on my writing, haha. 

[keypeg]

I was not told how to approach the first sonatina. My teacher wanted me to study the notes first. The feedback I received was more concerned with the musical aspects of my playing (e.g. bring out the melody more, watch the rhythm in the second movement, contrast dynamics, etc..). What he does is demonstrate how to do those things, and ask me to repeat.

This in turn brings up more things to explore.

- When you "study the notes", what does that mean to you, and what kind of previous knowledge do you bring into this?  (It could be, just learn what the notes are - It could include understanding the structure of the piece.  It could be a number of things).

- When you are told to bring out the melody, do you know physically how to do that?

- When he demonstrates "how to do it", this can mean that he shows you what it's supposed to sound like, and you try to duplicate it (somehow).  Or it can mean that he shows you an approach, maybe in steps, that will lead you toward achieving these results.  Do you manage to do them when he shows them to you?  In practising later at home?  Do you feel that you are able to achieve what he expects of you?

[keypeg]

double post