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Topic: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces (Read 3492 times)

opus10no2

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The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

on: January 17, 2016, 08:58:32 PM

Like many pianists here - I was a late starter. On top of that I never have visions of being a concert pianist.
I do enjoy learning some shorter pieces but my greater interest is in improvisation and composition - it is a genuine interest of mine but I will admit this is also due in part to the alternative being a huge workload of practice to memorize and perfect numerous long works.

I'm a huge fan of the vast piano repertoire from famous composers such as Chopin and Rachmaninoff to lesser known but equally great masters....thing is I have discovered that there is truly GREAT value in investing time in learning just SECTIONS of these works.
Just a couple pages, or even less - just the themes etc.
Examples may be the Cadenzas of Rach 1 and Rach 3 - tremendously rewarding sections even to play on their own and to learn them takes far less a time investment than learning and perfecting the entire concertos.

I find that by learning these sections I can not only play my highlights of my favourite works - but I also find that it is invaluable to absorb these notes in my fingers and mind to inspire my own improvisations and ideas.

I know the 'Classical' community may frown upon this cutting and chunking of works, and it's certainly not something that would be played in concert - but I do think there is value in it and I wonder if others do the same and look at it the same way I do?

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chopinlover01

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Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #1 on: January 17, 2016, 09:02:46 PM

If you're playing it to understand how the music is structured, discover new textures, etc. then I dot see why not. I've done this before for the same reasons you outlined, and unless you learn it wrong I just means you have that much easier of a time learnin the whole thing if/when you learn it.

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opus10no2

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Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #2 on: January 17, 2016, 09:13:51 PM

True. Of course like I say there is the enjoyment of playing nice chunks of music but there is real benefit to absorbing the music into your vocabulary.

Considering I'm not a performer and don't want to be - I like to use my energy wisely and efficiently and while in an ideal world I'd love to learn the full works, time doesn't always permit.

Say I have enough time and energy to learn 10 pages of music every few weeks....I could learn a 10 page piece which would be great if I wished to perform but learning 1 page of 10 completely different pieces - the sections I particularly love...that's more valuable to me especially because the more memorable the music you are learning - the more pleasurable and easier it is to learn.
Just like a lot of people - I have favourite sections of works that I could repeat and repeat - whereas often my appreciation of the entire work can be uneven.

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adodd81802

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Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #3 on: January 18, 2016, 10:18:25 AM

I think if improvisation is your thing, there's no reason why you should take this approach.

And also from a technical point of you view, you mentioned Chopin, you are mostly likely aware of his Etudes, of which many have a repeating riff and style throughout with the aim of teaching you different technical abilities.

It is my opinion that on many of them, if you can even play a few bars at full speed (correctly) you would be well on your way to mastering the whole piece.

I believe there is a Cziffra improvisation video around on youtube where he does exactly that. I also believe that it has been mentioned in the past that (despite you saying you're not interested in performing) historically pieces were improvised as well in performances, an example being Liszt.

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opus10no2

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Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 10:39:22 AM

Oh I am interested in performing in some capacity just not as a concert pianist playing a long programme of pieces by other composers.

I have immense respect for concert pianists but I think many pianists on this forum are pursuing a path that may never materialize in the way they may envision - I'd encourage people to explore improvisation and composition and realize that in many ways (especially for late starters and people with less prospect of performing traditionally) it could be more rewarding.

I totally agree with you when it comes to the Chopin studies and Cziffra himself is actually a big influence of mine - if you look at his improvisations and transcriptions - they're full of borrowed ideas and extrapolations of pre-existing ideas. I don't think he and Liszt literally learned the entire repertoire! I think that they sight read many works and while they would commit some full pieces to memory....they would also perhaps also be thrilled by sections of works and then borrow and incorporate the ideas - be they melodic, harmonic, rhythmic, or in the form of figuration(like the Chopin studies).

I have a feeling many pianists actually mess around with little bits and pieces like this, we all do, but I think instead of thinking it as a waste of time to only learn bits and chunks - we should look at it as a great time-economic way to broaden our musical and pianistic horizons.

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louispodesta

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Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 12:10:50 AM

Quote from: opus10no2 on January 18, 2016, 10:39:22 AM

Oh I am interested in performing in some capacity just not as a concert pianist playing a long programme of pieces by other composers.

I have immense respect for concert pianists but I think many pianists on this forum are pursuing a path that may never materialize in the way they may envision - I'd encourage people to explore improvisation and composition and realize that in many ways (especially for late starters and people with less prospect of performing traditionally) it could be more rewarding.

I totally agree with you when it comes to the Chopin studies and Cziffra himself is actually a big influence of mine - if you look at his improvisations and transcriptions - they're full of borrowed ideas and extrapolations of pre-existing ideas. I don't think he and Liszt literally learned the entire repertoire! I think that they sight read many works and while they would commit some full pieces to memory....they would also perhaps also be thrilled by sections of works and then borrow and incorporate the ideas - be they melodic, harmonic, rhythmic, or in the form of figuration(like the Chopin studies).

I have a feeling many pianists actually mess around with little bits and pieces like this, we all do, but I think instead of thinking it as a waste of time to only learn bits and chunks - we should look at it as a great time-economic way to broaden our musical and pianistic horizons.

In that my late piano teacher taught me to learn technique from practicing certain section of well-known pieces, I

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louispodesta

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Posts: 1077

Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 12:16:52 AM

Quote from: louispodesta on January 21, 2016, 12:10:50 AM

In that my late piano teacher taught me to learn technique from practicing certain section of well-known pieces, I

Please disregard the prior unfinished post. It should state:

In that my late piano teacher taught me to learn technique from practicing certain sections of well-known pieces, I am most familiar with the epistemology related to your interrogatory.

Please contact my by PM, and I would glad to provide you with detailed specific answers to your questions. They are excellent questions.

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dcstudio

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Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 01:18:11 AM

I think every pianist great and small has their list of partially finished works. if this is rewarding to you then of course it's beneficial. Anything that gets you up on that bench and keeps you there is a good thing.

I myself have so many unfinished pieces and parts and themes that I finally mashed some of them together and I made this... I believe my video illustrates the value in learning only sections of pieces quite well... lol

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ted

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Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 04:43:34 AM

Good to hear you are back in action, Opus10, and I look forward to hearing your improvisation. I do not do that myself, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be constructive provided too many quotes didn't start popping up in your playing to the detriment of your original ideas.

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opus10no2

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Posts: 2157

Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #9 on: January 21, 2016, 01:40:34 PM

Thanks for the input Louis. I agree with the technical benefits of making exercises out of Music.

And Ted thankyou, I remember you as the Kiwi ambassador of piano on here, hope you are well.

My conception of the way Music works actually touches upon what you say - on the *micro* level - all Music is quotes. The fact that the word Music sounds so much like the word Mosaic is a fascinating coincidence.

I view Music like a Mosaic - pre-existing micro-chunks reborn in new conceptions.

Just as the very atoms that make up our beings made up something wholly different before, it's a fascinating idea.

Playing 'quotes' does not hinder the imagination - it spurs it. Listen to 'theme and variations' by different composers - they took ideas and stacked ideas upon ideas, our musical imagination is a grand mosaic of all that we have heard before.

This clip doesn't illustrate what I say really, just a sample of my playing from late 2014 if anyone's curious. I'm a work in progress still haha.

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lustercrush

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Posts: 17

Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #10 on: January 21, 2016, 11:39:42 PM

Absolutely, I think this is a fine approach, even for the 'Classical' community. This approach can also be taken to help decide if if the time required to learn a particular piece is worth investing on.
You can learn sections to see how well you connect with the piece before committing to learning the whole thing.

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piulento

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Posts: 224

Re: The benefits of learning only sections of pieces

Reply #11 on: January 23, 2016, 05:01:17 PM

I also started playing rather late in my life, and struggle in finding time to play, so I also have a tendency to learn only bits and parts of some pieces. It's fun, satisfying, and expands your musical horizon.
But even so, I still think nothing compares to truely learning a piece. I don't mean it in the classical way, I mean in the emotional way. There's nothing like working your ass off for months and thinking about every last note of the sheet music in order to make a piece your own.
I know it sounds pretentious, but I genuinely believe that.

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