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Topic: "What Every Pianist Needs to Know About The Body" by Dr. Thomas Mark  (Read 4633 times)

Offline xdjuicebox

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At the suggestion of LouisPodesta, I bought a copy of this book online, and tore through it in about 3 days. I must say, it was well worth the read. I understand why he so adamantly advocates this book.

First, a brief summary; the author discusses the idea of "body mapping," which is the idea of aligning one's kinesthetic sense with the location of their actual body parts, and he goes on to claim that most injuries/misfortunes that befall a pianist are due to bad mapping, or believing that some body part is actually in another place.

He then teaches one how to map all of the relevant parts of the body for piano playing, as well as common errors, and common causes of injury. There is even an interesting section about the space surrounding a pianist, though I won't comment about that too much.

This book is good for Organists as well; there's an entire section dedicated to them.

For anyone who intends to play piano for a long time, or anything moderately difficult, THIS BOOK IS A MUST HAVE. In my opinion, at least. I've already fixed a couple back/neck problems that I didn't even notice and my arms have never felt freer. I didn't know I could play the third movement of Appassionata as quickly as I did tonight LOL. Someone please stop me before I turn into Lang Lang (lol jk, I'll get bored of playing fast eventually and return to playing musically I hope)

Anyway, some pros and cons:

Pros:
-If you actually understand all of the information in here, you could potentially never get injured
-It covers most of the injuries that people experience, and a lot of the ones that people don't
-He goes over every part of the body that the pianist uses. Literally, all of it.
-He presents a very ergonomic, injury preventing technique
-You can tell this guy did his research

Cons:
-Some of the descriptions aren't as clear as I would have liked them to be; some parts I had to read twice. And while reading something twice isn't that big of a deal, it may be to some LOL
-Due to the lack of layman's terms for some of the bones described, he ends up using the actual names of certain parts of the body (like the sternoclavicular joint), but he goes on to explain them. It didn't bother me since I studied a lot of anatomy when I was younger, but to some it may be annoying.
-You can tell this guy has a Ph.D, some parts of it sound like a math textbook (I'm a math major, so I don't mind, but eh)

All in all, this is a must have, so get it, thanks LouisPodesta. There are some parts I disagree with, but they're minor and negligible.

You're going to have to read this book a couple times. At least I know I will. My advice would be to keep it next to your piano, and whenever something goes wrong with your body, tear through it and look for what you screwed up.

Thoughts?
I am trying to become Franz Liszt. Trying. And failing.

Offline outin

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A very good book indeed. It's in my book shelf and I took it out occasionally. It's good to remind me sometimes of certain things and they seem to make more sense now than the first time. Well written, but sometimes tiresome to read for someone who has trouble with remembering names of body parts, body mapping, left and right etc...

Offline keypeg

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I've had it for a number of years and it has been immensely helpful.  Rather than read it through in a few days, I worked through it, which is what T. Marks recommends, because he invites us to explore and experience each thing he talks about.  One thing I didn't expect was the physical mechanism of pedaling.  Also, which forearm bone rotates around which and which bone stays still: that unexpectedly made something easier in violin where you somewhat rotate the left hand inward.

Offline lostinidlewonder

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I've played piano since I was three and never injured myself once from playing (well I lie I cut my finger with a glissando once). I really wonder how experienced pianists hurt themselves, they really must be stubborn with bad movements and push through pain when their body wears down. Certainly considering everything in physics and diagrams won't help IMHO. It's too much thinking and I can just get to the core of things by playing correctly works that are not so difficult they deceive your hands and not consider every single action and position, wow exhausting waste of thought IMO. It's almost like analysing how to bring a fork to your mouth while eating.
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
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Offline outin

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I've played piano since I was three and never injured myself once from playing (well I lie I cut my finger with a glissando once). I really wonder how experienced pianists hurt themselves, they really must be stubborn with bad movements and push through pain when their body wears down. Certainly considering everything in physics and diagrams won't help IMHO. It's too much thinking and I can just get to the core of things by playing correctly works that are not so difficult they deceive your hands and not consider every single action and position, wow exhausting waste of thought IMO. It's almost like analysing how to bring a fork to your mouth while eating.

I think it has to do with one's general physique, a thing that is largely ignored. Some people are just better equipped from the start. Those who have reasonable hand size, good muscle balance and firm joints just are not so prone to injury. I've read a study that females and people with a certain hand type and size are more likely to develope injury playing the standard repertoire.

I have a long history of injury from many other activities that goes all the way back to my teenage years. I didn't have to do excessive practice to get into trouble with piano as well when I returned to it...I am always balancing on what I should do to sound better and what I can do without compromising my health. So I need to look into these things more than the average Joe...

Offline trollbuster

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At the suggestion of LouisPodesta      Thoughts?
   

yea   I think you are LouisPodesta and now you have a sockpuppet account

Offline xdjuicebox

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yea   I think you are LouisPodesta and now you have a sockpuppet account

Lol I'm not LouisPodesta. For one, I don't think he's well acquainted with internet slang/memes, and I'll have you know that I am an ep1c mem3r 420.

In terms of not getting injured...yeah some people can play forever and not get injured. I'm not one of them.
I am trying to become Franz Liszt. Trying. And failing.

Offline keypeg

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I've played piano since I was three and never injured myself once from playing (well I lie I cut my finger with a glissando once).
Self-taught, or did you have a teacher or two along the way since you were a child?
Quote
It's too much thinking and I can just get to the core of things by playing correctly works that are not so difficult they deceive your hands and not consider every single action and position, wow exhausting waste of thought IMO.
So because you never had any problems, nobody else will have problems, and if they do or did have problems, it is because of "too much thinking"?  Are you not a teacher?  And if so, do you not guide your students in the physical side of playing?  Some of us were not that lucky, and we did not do "too much thinking" - we did what came spontaneously but without guidance.  It's been a difficult journey and should not be trivialized.

Offline lustercrush

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I agree with some of what lostinidlewonder says.
When approaching matters like these, one may encounter paralysis through over-analysis and unnecessarily interfere with natural processes.
However, for those who have been injured through playing piano or for those whose natural processes are not ideal, the book may be helpful.
Can anyone comment on the DVD?

Offline louispodesta

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It is nice see that some of those who posted can understand the merits associated with the whole body approach to playing the piano.  That is why most of the keyboard department chairs in America have a copy of Dr. Mark's book in their personal studio library.

Unlike the teachers of old, they realize that natural ability alone is not common to the average student.  Accordingly, as Taubman/Golandsky before him, Dr. Mark points out how proper alignment can prevent and possibly cure a whole host of problems.

As far as the DVD is concerned, Dr. Mark filmed it himself, and in my opinion, it needs to be updated.  His book alone, which he considers to be a handbook kept by the piano, is more than enough to get his basic thesis across.

However, I cannot stress enough that, just like everything else in life, the personal approach to proper whole body piano technique has to be done on a "one on one basis" in a lesson.  That is why on two occasions, I spent ten hours on an airplane to fly up to Portland, OR, for a lesson.

It is a mind blowing experience to sit next to this brilliant but gentle soul, who has the ability to instantly size up a given problem within a particular section of any piece, and then make corrections/recommendations accordingly.  I was literally stunned the first time it happened to me.

After the first coaching session, you can just film your problem and then mail or download it to him, and then he will respond by doing the same.

Or, if you or your friends or fellow students can get up the money to fly him in for one of his two seminars (regular technique, and a separate one on octave technique), then you can book a private lesson while he is in your location.

This is going to sound arrogant, but after unsuccessfully spending the better part of two years calling keyboard department chairs at various colleges trying to make this happen, I finally figured out why.  That is:  after Thomas Mark destroys any previous false notions you had about the supposed difficulties of learning how to play the piano, then what do you do when you come in for your next lesson with your regular teacher.

What does your teacher say when you tell him that Dr. Mark never warms up, and that he  never plays any exercises, scales, or arpeggios?  And, what does your teacher say when you tell him that you should not play with an outstretched or pronated hand?

Accordingly, after beating my head against the wall and never getting past the frustration associated with not being able to master certain pieces, I no longer live in that world?  In my new reality, all I have to remember are the basics of whole body playing and that Thomas Mark teaches that:  after two days, if a particular passage does not improve, then stop, reassess, tear it down, and then proceed again.   Playing it over and over again will not magically make it better.

Offline immortalbeloved

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What does your teacher say when you tell him that Dr. Mark never warms up, and that he  never plays any exercises, scales, or arpeggios?  And, what does your teacher say when you tell him that you should not play with an outstretched or pronated hand?

But surely, learning scales and arepegios as essentials to anyone's development, i.e. as Liszt, Czerny and almost everyone says!

Offline hardy_practice

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What does your teacher say when you tell him that Dr. Mark never warms up, and that he  never plays any exercises, scales, or arpeggios?  And, what does your teacher say when you tell him that you should not play with an outstretched or pronated hand?
But Mark says on page 80 'But even pianists who do not consciously train forearm rotation as an element of technique still use it, since the mere bringing of the hands into playing position with the palms facing the floor requires pronation of the forearm.  Therefore all pianists, whether they are aware of it or not, rotate their forearms to play the piano.'
B Mus, PGCE, DipABRSM

Offline louispodesta

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But Mark says on page 80 'But even pianists who do not consciously train forearm rotation as an element of technique still use it, since the mere bringing of the hands into playing position with the palms facing the floor requires pronation of the forearm.  Therefore all pianists, whether they are aware of it or not, rotate their forearms to play the piano.'
Two points:  first, scales and arpeggios are an important part of music theory.  However, as the late Earl Wild stated in his Memoir, very seldom do scale passages in actual pieces mirror image those that most pianists play when they warm up.  Therefore, they are a waste of  valuable time.

When I do my two hours in the morning, and then again in the afternoon, I am exclusively working on repertoire.  And, trust me, I get a lot done.

Secondly, what Dr. Mark is not referring to is what I clumsily described in my original post as pronating.  Instead, this is what the Taubman/Golandsky folks refer to as "twisting."  That is the movement of the hand (at the wrist) from right to left.

What Dr. Mark teaches is that the strong part of the hand is the proper straight alignment along the outside of the hand, upwards of the ulnar nerve.  In his book, Dr. Mark uses the analogy of hanging from a chin-up bar above your head.  One would never do so with their hand twisted to the side.

Therefore, the way you get from one note, (or set of notes), to the next, is to move (Dr. Mark) the entire arm to position yourself over the next passage.  If you try it, you will notice that, in terms of the entire arm, we are talking about a matter of a few inches at most.

The Taubman/Golandsky technique is to rotate the forearm, and then the arm will follow, which in terms of human kinesiology, is nuts!  That is akin to saying:  stick out your foot and walk.

As Dr. Mark accurately points out:  the hand, forearm, upper arm and shoulder all articulate from the sternovanicular joint where the collar bone joins the sternum.  In order to elucidate this, please place your second and third fingers of either hand on the opposite side joint and then gently articulate the entire arm in one motion on that side.

Offline hardy_practice

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In other words you meant ulnar and radial deviation.
B Mus, PGCE, DipABRSM
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