I understand the question but am surprised at your requirement as I would have thought the index finger one of the strongest and the 3rd 4th and 5th the weakest.
When writing this post I thought some people would be confused, but it is a serious question. I play Chopin Etudes including Op. 25, No. 12 well at some high tempos but I want to further polish this piece up and the sweeping arpeggios are very demanding on the 2nd finger in particular. For example: when playing at high speeds any of the arpeggios where the 2nd finger is playing a stretchy key or lower key than the thumb and pinky - (2nd finger on a white key and thumb and pinky on black keys) it has a problem pronouncing it's note loudly and practicing accenting the 2nd finger notes helped a bit but not completely.I really hope someone can help..
the fingers are just tendons and ligaments.
Practice barre-chords on a guitar! It will strengthen your 2nd finger more than any exercise on the piano by far.
Practice bar chords.. I can play the likes of Zakk Wylde and Slash on the guitar, bar chords are the easiest thing in the world to me. It doesn't help. And to the person who said you can't strengthen your fingers, umm.. Why are we getting scientific? Pianists all say ''strengthening of the fingers'' and it is besides the point entirely. I don't really need to show me playing it, I can play the piece well and at a cap of about 140/150bpm if I really push it. But at higher speeds, like I said. The index fingers for both hands, have a problem with their notes. Somehow it is impossible to get some finger exercises for both hands now? Come on, people.
I'd rather play the piece in it's entirety after all my hard work and single out what this problem is rather than simplify it because of a bit of a misshap with a finger. As I said, despite this I can play the piece well and close to the speed Chopin inscribed which I have seen very few pianists are able to do. Apart from some great virtuosos, people seem to cap out at about 130/140bpm. Obviously I am still working on this as you can never master a piece. It's not every single shape that this happens on but it's some of them and instead of avoiding the problem I need to fix it. Thanks for your replies, I am confused by this problem myself, but just because the 2nd fingers aren't one of the weak ones, doesn't mean I am going to neglect building all of my fingers, clearly my 2nd fingers have a problem when it comes to a polished and virtuoso level of this piece. But this is the level I have to face now as I have arrived at this point. I have gone back to basics and practiced this but I am only wasting time, I am at the point where I am on the advanced end of this piece. Mind you, my 2nd fingers do not have problems with other pieces, it's just this one..
Pulsing-pulsing, outlining or scanning the music indicates a reading which leaves out everything which can be deleted without destroying the emotional reaction to the beauty of the music. It is something like the relation of a telegram to a complete statement which includes all the modifiers-but with one signal difference: the telegram loses the grace of the full sentence, tence, whereas pulsing is used to intensify the awareness of the grace in relationship of the important tones of the music. A basic rhythm uses these important tones as stepping stones, as it were, in the music. Pulsing is a way of increasing the importance of the relationship of these stepping stones and of using them to enhance the grace in musical procedure
I still suggest you try it out. There is no shame in simplifying a piece, and not doing so causes you to miss out on one of the greatest practice techniques and ways of approaching learning music: outling.I only suggest this, because to me it's very clear that balance of activity you used in learning the piece, tilts it such that the 2nd finger is subservient to 1 and 5. You will actually have to put in the time to reverse it. No physical exercise in the world will change the fact that the motor coordinations you used to learn it, balance it in the other direction than the one you want.
I know I'm leaving less and less options for your suggestions but I am only saying the truth, I learnt the piece very carefully, at first it was my pinky that was the problem, it wasn't playing it's notes on the descending arpeggios, now it does. I've spent days and days before, practicing slow to fast, with different rhythmical variations all with an accented 2nd finger note. I would practice the piece inside out, top to bottom with 2nd finger accents on both hands, trying to ingrain into those fingers to play their notes properly, and while it has improved for sure, it's not perfect to me. I guess I'll have to do the same thing I was doing, because there was improvement, just not enough for a mastery performance yet. Now for example imagine your 1st and 5th fingers on black keys an octave apart and your 2nd finger on a white note as a 5th. The natural height difference between the 5th and 1st finger to the 2nd finger on the white key means the white key is further away and requires more pressure in order to play it's note as loud as the 1st and 5th finger which are in comfortable distance to their keys. This is because the whole hand is higher up.. This kind of shape is one of the pivotal problems I'm having at high speeds. Another shape can even be all white keys... For example: 1st and 5th finger an octave apart on G and the 2nd finger on E. Because the index is stretched to a side, it mimics in a similar way as the first example of a height difference, but now a distant difference. Basically the 2nd fingers note is once again, requiring more force in order to play it's note. Now lets combine those two problems.. This means the worst would be 1st and 5th on black keys and the 2nd fingers on a white key but a white key that is to the side.. For example 1st and 5th on Ab and 2nd finger on B. Try playing that as an arpeggio, ascending and descending at 160bpm. It's ridiculously difficult. Literally, go and try it, it's baffling..Then again, I've only been playing this piece 5 or 6 months and I'm already on an advanced level with it, these etudes require years so I should actually be proud..
I have not played this piece, but I went and tried that arpeggio. I could do it at 150 bpm (right hand only), but you are right, 160 is 10x harder. How big is your span between the 2nd and 5th fingers? I have fairly small hands, and the worst part of this was the stretch. Maybe increasing flexibility of 2 and 5 sideways would benefit more than strictly increasing downward strength?
I'm going to repeat the same advice, because what your saying doesn't fundamentally negate the solution I'm trying to offer. Accents, rhythm variations, slow-fast, practice etc... do not change and will not change the fact that you have learned the piece such that 1 and 5 dominate the basic rhythm, flow, and coordination of the piece. Right now you are using a coordination where the full rhythmic arm stroke is on 1 and 5, and 2 is "tucked in". It's also happens to be the full arm stroke corresponding to the horizontal progression of the piece that governs the basic coordination so that you can go full tempo.Because of this, unless fundamentally change your coordination, you will always face the same problem when you reach high tempos. I'm not merely give you another practice variation. What I'm telling you will completely change the coordination you are currently using for the piece. 2 will now go on the full arm stroke, and 1 and 5 will be "tucked in" and coordinated to the 2. Right now, your jumps and hand positions shifts are completely governed by 1 and 5, if you want 2 to be more prominent, you will have to change it so that 2 governs the hand positions shifts. 1 and 5 need to be afterthoughts to the 2. Try it for that Ab/B you are baffled by. Play only the jumps B with a full arm stroke until you can do this rhythmically and musically. Create a crescendo line with just the jumping B's. Maybe even give a day to let muscle memory set in. Then add the Ab's, but never let go of the sensation that the B is governing the rhythmic, "horizontal progression". Also, don't just focus on the striking/articulation of the B. The actions "in between" striking B are actually more important. You need to feel and sense the continuity in-between the B's. It is that "space" between the B's where you tuck in the Ab's.
Did you try the arpeggio at double time though? Or did you half time the arpeggio? Remember that this is in sixteenth notes at 160bpm. Let me know if you did mean this, or if you went and tried this. And also, this is without the left hand playing too, so adding the left hand makes this even more difficult, obviously.. And my hands are small but I don't think this is the problem
I tried to play 4 notes per click, 3 octaves up and down, yes. Try holding down the Ab with your thumb and doing a tremolo with the 2nd finger on B and 5th finger on the Ab above. If you don't feel a stretch from that, then flexibility shouldn't be a problem. Have you looked at the Cortot edition of the op25-etudes btw? It has several exercises dedicated to each etude. Perhaps working on some of those could be helpful.I do agree with anamnesis in that one should aim to optimize movement etc. But I also agree with you in that once you reach a certain speed, the only way to go faster is to improve the hands and fingers in themselves.
So you mean practice just leaping the 2nd fingers across with 1st and 5th fingers lifted? If so, that sounds like a good idea.
I can try to think of the 2nd finger as the governor, it's just a little logically difficult when the arpeggios start and end with 1st and 5th finger, which naturally causes my arm sweeps to tilt towards the side I am arpeggiating towards.
And do you mean a straighter, less tilted hand while my arm is sweeping across to the next position? Because that sounds also difficult since my hand is skimming close to the keys because the tempo is so fast and I have not enough time to lift up higher and maintain a straighter hand where the second finger wont hit a key accidentally.
And the 2nd fingers are the ones that are changing shapes the most in the piece. Please if you can answer those questions, I'd appreciate it, I like your advice.
Just another thought, the Ab B Ab shape causes my 2nd finger to be higher up on the key, obviously the higher up on the key you are, the more force it takes to play the key.
Now for example imagine your 1st and 5th fingers on black keys an octave apart and your 2nd finger on a white note as a 5th. The natural height difference between the 5th and 1st finger to the 2nd finger on the white key means the white key is further away and requires more pressure in order to play it's note as loud as the 1st and 5th finger which are in comfortable distance to their keys.
You need to change your hand and wrist position depending on the finger playing. You change the position vertically and horizontally so there should actually be no such situation as you are describing in your example because you do not just shift the hand and wrist in the stiff position with thumb and pinky reaching for their notes. You carry out fluid and fast movements and flexible wrists play great role here. This etude requires ability to shift the hand quickly over the keyboard. I have never heard that it was a study for 2nd finger It looks like you are a little stuck on this one. Why don't you move on to some other piece and come back to the etude in a couple of months with fresh mind? That's what I did and it works better plus starting the same piece from beginning again will make you keep it memorized forever.
Well at least not active enough to be pressing or hitting a key or getting in the way. We're just leaping with the second with a full-arm stroke on it. I previously described flexing your biceps and how the wrist and forearm will look (inverted V). You should feel a sense of perfect alignment on those notes like I described earlier. One easy way to over come the mental block is to think of 1 and 5 as less important "grace notes" to the main full stroke on 2. You are playing "toward the 2" and playing off the "1 and 5"s leading to the "2's. Focus on balancing on the 2's to avoid the tilt, and reorganizing your hand positions. One of the things about the etudes is not to get tricked by bar lines and beats when positioning everything. The optimal positions will actually cross bar lines or be in on the last part of a beat connected to the first part of the next. Sometimes it's useful trick to "shift" the meter a half beat or so and reorganize everything from there. On nearly every etude I ran into trouble, this or a very similar line of thinking was almost always involved in the solution. When doing the full-arm stroke on 2, it should almost rebound and give you the energy to be lifted and get to the next position. Imagine dribbling a basketball. There is of course a down motion, but there is also an up motion from the rebound. You need to focus on the up motion more than the down portion because you may not fully paid attention to it before. Practice "dribbling" on just a single key with the 2nd finger until you can feel the up motion just as much if not more so than the down motion. This is part of the "space or action between" tones that I mentioned earlier. The continuous action between the positions should be "curvilinear" like a scallop border: The indentions are the moment of the full arm stroke, and notice how the indentions have and up and down portion to them. The curve is the continuous action between tones that must be sensed. Physically the joint that should feel this will actually be at the shoulder (the glenohumeral joint) because this is the only ball-and-socket joint in the upper extremity. The "hinges" further down the line are incapable of legato and continuity, and most especially "long-line legato" without this joint. The exact hand positions (and thus 2nd finger) will change shape with each figure; however, the continuous action of the arm that I described earlier, will not. This action is the "basic rhythm" of the piece. It is most like the gait of a walk, the rhythmic strokes while swimming. The full-arm stroke is capable of handling that. "Tucked in" tones only get a fraction of the power from the arm; however, this is no longer a problem if we switch it so that 1 and 5 are tucked in, and 2 gets the full arm stroke.I will warn you that this will be difficult because you will be fighting already established muscle memory, which is the main reason I'm suggesting starting from an "outline" to help dissociate yourself from initial way you learned to physically organize this piece.
Topic: How to further strengthen the 2nd (index) finger? 