sustain pedal

[sumpianodude]

so obviously, you shouldn't use pedal where it is not indicated, but i have seen many professionals on YouTube "cheat" with pedals on certain parts. so my questions is: should you use pedal even on a piece where there are no pedal marking whatsoever? (e.g. waldstein 1st mvt, which happens to be the first one i noticed)

[mjames]

so obviously, you shouldn't use pedal where it is not indicated

nope wrong. You shouldn't use the pedal when it's marked "senza pedal" (without pedal). Stricter pedal indications in the score is a 20th trend, before that it was most left up to your own judgment. Just look at all of the first editions of Chopin or Liszt, a lot of them have no pedal markings but no rational pianist would actually play without the pedal lol.

Second you have to consider the fact that Beethoven's and our pianos are completely different. It's silly to play his works like how it should have been played like 200+ years ago.

[quantum]

In addition to what mjames said, skilled pianists will modify pedal application according to the instrument and acoustics of the performance space.  

Unless it is a specific effect the composer wants, think of pedaling indications or the lack thereof as suggestions.  Your ears will guide you to the application of the pedal.

Pianos in Beethoven's time didn't have the same sustain length as modern instruments.  You need to go after the effect, not the literal application of markings.  

[michael_c]

In addition to what mjames said, skilled pianists will modify pedal application according to the instrument and acoustics of the performance space.

This is the main reason why most composers do not cover their works with detailed pedal markings. They rely on the performer to understand the musical effect that is intended and to vary their use of the pedal according to the circumstances.

[xdjuicebox]

The pedal is the soul of the piano. Unless specifically indicated, it is always used in some way. Do not OVERUSE IT (liek me ) and blur everything (like me ) though, unless it specifically says to do so (20th century stuff where you blend harmonies for a bit)

[adodd81802]

Lol of these are good and valid answers and so I'd like to chip in and clarify a couple of misconceptions.

What it seems you believe to have observed is an area where notes are to be held but are sustained or where it suggests legato but you think they have just used the pedal instead. Let's consider quite a few things here to completely shut you down

Firstly, the damper pedal, as it's correctly called is most commonly used to make notes sound connected when they are not physically connected. While this is the most common use there are two  important points that must be considered when identifying  when it is appropriate to use this pedal.

The first is most obvious point is that the pedal, at an advanced level isn't an on/off switch, as you may perceive it but it is actually a lever that has many levels, eg half pedal, quarter pedal to name a few.

So why isn't the pedal just an on off switch?

Because different levels of the pedal can create a multitude of different effects and sounds, whether you pedal on the note, or before the note or after the note they're all different sounds, whether hold your finger down on a note with the pedal, or strike the note, have you ever considered that you can play staccato with the damper pedal down? it is not the same sound as legato.

There are many scores that indicate this.

If we flip your point over and say OK, what about scores that give all the pedal markings, a Chopin piece from 200 years ago. We pick it up, learn it, stay true to the pedal, and guess what - it sounds horrible, the notes are blurry, the phrases aren't split, the bass is drowning out the melody, low and behold chopin's pedal markings for his old little pleyel don't quite work for the big beefy steinway, do you just accept it?

Some physical aspects worth noting, I can reach a 9th, and 10th around the fingers. Not bad, but average size for an average pianist. I haven't even looked at a Rachmaninoff piece yet, but I'm well aware of the challenge of competing with his easy 13ths which would be impossible for me to make connected without use of the pedal - am I also a cheat?

Believe me, there's no secrecy going on when you see professionals pedal during a performance, they are using it to create a specific sound and I am confident have cut no corners in the cut-throat battle to get noticed as a successful musician.

[sumpianodude]

Lol of these are good and valid answers and so I'd like to chip in and clarify a couple of misconceptions.



Firstly, the damper pedal, as it's correctly called is most commonly used to make notes sound connected when they are not physically connected. While this is the most common use there are two  important points that must be considered when identifying  when it is appropriate to use this pedal.
 

The pedal is the soul of the piano. Unless specifically indicated, it is always used in some way. Do not OVERUSE IT (liek me ) and blur everything (like me ) though, unless it specifically says to do so (20th century stuff where you blend harmonies for a bit)

So how can one really make a legato sound without blurring all the notes together? And especially if you are trying to connect a single voice over several voices and the pedal ends up blurring the whole peice? I think i have all of juicebox's problems...

[jimroof]

So how can one really make a legato sound without blurring all the notes together? And especially if you are trying to connect a single voice over several voices and the pedal ends up blurring the whole peice? I think i have all of juicebox's problems...

I think it was Joseph Levine who said the sustain pedal is the soul of the piano.  Use it wisely and it is heaven - use it poorly and it is hell (or something to that effect - and it may have been someone else altogether).

Legato is not achieved primarily through the use of the pedal.  Legato is achieved by allowing notes to overlap in a precisely controlled manner and by connecting the notes through the use of carefully crafted dynamics.  The pedal CAN be used to help when the legato is required for chords or when there is a stretch that the hand cannot achieve in a legato line.

The real master of the pedal is the EAR.  Just use your ear.  Learn what you can academically about period use of sustain, but when it comes down to it, it is the discretion of the pianist to do as they please.  I use pedal for pieces from the Well Tempered Clavier, but VERY sparingly.  I use it a lot in Mozart and Beethoven, but the ear is the judge here as well, and Mozart simply does not call for as much pedal as Beethoven.

There are also techniques for the sustain pedal that are quite involved - some call it flutter pedaling or feathered pedaling.  This can be used in rapid passage work where the pedal may actually be moving lightly every 8th note to the passage's 16th notes. 

There is a YouTube video of Helene Grimaud playing Brahms 1st Piano Concerto that has a number of shots taken through the piano in which you can see what she is doing with the dampers.  You might want to check that out.  See it below.