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Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves! (Read 8271 times)

Offline adodd81802

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #50 on: April 13, 2016, 09:16:01 AM »
.
"England is a country of pianos, they are everywhere."

Offline octave_revolutionary

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #51 on: April 14, 2016, 10:21:11 PM »
@adodd81802 Regarding your question about Gaspard, I think it's gotten a bad rap from pianists the world over mainly for its awkward passages involving juxtaposition of the hands in certain passages, leaps while crossing one hand over the other, and for  prerequisites such as extremely fine and ethereal tonal shading and aural craftsmanship required to pull it off convicingly. I've never played it myself- but having browsed through it a few times in the past, it seems like a piece of cake to me- can't understand why it's considered to be so difficult - might be a question of endurance more than speed, idk.

'Islamey', however, is a totally different story- it has a reputation of being one of the most notoriously difficult things ever written for the piano (at least in the standard repertoire)- and possibly with good reason. It's my impression that it's actually more treacherous than difficult, and has gotten a bad rap because pianists most probably approach it in an amateurish and tecnically inefficient manner. It's also a piece that i've never played either, but I can vouch for the awkwardness of the writing, and the chromatic descending octaves in the right hand, together with the leaps in the left hand in the development part preceeding the 'trepak' are no doubt, at least a slight challenge to master. I also tend to think that the huge quantity of accidentals and chromaticisms in the piece daunts and confuses pianists. Having said that, I think its difficulty lies much more in conveying the spirit of the piece- which, according to one of my piano professors, was inspired in pantheism- and maintaining this spirit throughout while not faltering in tempo or impetus- that is almost certainly a challenge. If you want to learn it, I recommend first learning it very slowly, then gradually speeding up the parts I just mentioned, before trying to tackle it as a whole and as a musical composition. And I don't recommend it being tackled by anyone under 20 years old, or without a professional-level technique! All this being said, I assure you that it isn't anywhere even NEARLY as difficult as the Revolutionary etude in octaves, or even Op.10,#2 in 60 seconds, for that matter- playing the Rev. in octaves is a feat of singular technical complexity, which I don't advise ANYONE, even a top, world-class pianist, of attempting to duplicate. There have been famous pianists in the 20th century who have permanently injured their hands playing stuff much easier than that.

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #52 on: April 14, 2016, 11:26:15 PM »
@octave_revolutionary,

Aren't you over-selling the difficulty of the Revolutionary Etude in octaves a bit? I'm sure there are many pianists who could play it but don't because it sounds so awful. And there is plenty of music more difficult than that. Take a look at Godowsky's paraphrases on the Chopin studies for example, not to mention works like the Ligeti Etudes or the music of Kaikhosru Sorabji.

And no offense, but you talk as if you are the most supremely gift pianist on the planet;

Quote
the Rev. in octaves is a feat of singular technical complexity, which I don't advise ANYONE, even a top, world-class pianist, of attempting to duplicate

It comes across a rather arrogant.

Offline jimroof

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #53 on: April 14, 2016, 11:54:58 PM »
It comes across a rather arrogant.

And it just sounds horrendous. 

Some may claim that my distaste for this rendition is born out of jealousy for the ability to play it this way.  OK.  I WOULD like to be able to play it in octaves like this...

But, if I did have the skill or the willingness to acquire the skill do so, I would hope it would be tempered with the presence of mind to realize just how much the piece is butchered in the process, and never stick it out as some singular achievement that sets me apart from other pianists. 

Remember the FedEx speed talker?  How many people would want to hear that guy talk as fast and as loud as possible as he recited Walt Whitman?
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Offline octave_revolutionary

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #54 on: April 15, 2016, 12:17:35 AM »
@octave_revolutionary,

Aren't you over-selling the difficulty of the Revolutionary Etude in octaves a bit? I'm sure there are many pianists who could play it but don't because it sounds so awful. And there is plenty of music more difficult than that. Take a look at Godowsky's paraphrases on the Chopin studies for example, not to mention works like the Ligeti Etudes or the music of Kaikhosru Sorabji.

And no offense, but you talk as if you are the most supremely gift pianist on the planet;

It comes across a rather arrogant.

No, you are mistaken- I assure you that the Godowsky paraphrases and Ligeti studies are not more difficult than this- maybe musically more complex, yes, no doubt! but there is a reason I warn against  trying this at home:

I simply don't want  to be minimally responsible or guilty in any way for anyone ruining his/her hands by trying something similar. It is a well-known fact that Gary Graffman severely injured his hands by, in his own words, roughly quoted, playing octaves with an inadequate fingering, and Leon Fleisher suffered a similar fate, although I don't know to what extent it had to do with improper practice. And these are the two cases that come to mind immediately; I've heard that there are many more. Please don't make a trifle of this- this is not something to be taken lightly. I've had absolute genius colleagues in music school whom I have subsequently either never heard of since I graduated, or at least hardly have heard anything about them. And THESE are precisely what I had been referring to as "world-class" musicians.  I just don't think anyone who is in that position, and that might be tempted to make a mark on the musical world, should do it by trying to copy me, or if he does, he should know that there are serious risks involved.  The most technically gifted pianists aren't always the greatest musicians, and vice-versa. I risked a whole lot in performing these stunts, and I don't regret it a bit. I'm not arrogant, I'm just defending my position. It's unlikely that an already famous pianist would ever even attempt to do this, anyway- but then, if he were really famous, he wouldn't have to.

And by the way....



yes, that's me playing, believe it or not, in the year 2004...... I just never posted that until now!

Offline octave_revolutionary

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #55 on: April 15, 2016, 12:36:51 AM »
If you want to try and convince us of your beauty in playing, you may want to take this video down...



I found that... absolutely disgusting, to do that to a piano... and why you would edit the speed of your playing... I don't know... but it looks suspect.

@perfect_pitch Don't worry, the piano survived  ;)  ;)

And what makes you think that I sped up this video?! To be sincere, I'm actually quite flattered that someone would think that, as it (the video) is basically a publicity stunt; but I can assure you that it isn't sped up!! In fact, if you're REALLY curious, if I ever come to your country to perform (wherever you live), I'll let you know, just so that I can prove to you that this is NOT a fake!  :D

Regards,

Octave

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #56 on: April 15, 2016, 12:50:41 AM »
Please don't bullshit me. What gave it away was the way you practically teleported off the piano stool at the end. It's clearly sped up, so please don't try and pretend it isn't.

if I ever come to your country to perform (wherever you live), I'll let you know, just so that I can prove to you that this is NOT a fake!

You ever play like that on my grand piano - I'll beat you with a baseball bat. I don't care if the piano survived. Mel Gibsons character survived the beating he took in the movie 'Payback' but the end result wasn't pretty.

Offline octave_revolutionary

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #57 on: April 15, 2016, 01:12:27 AM »
Please don't bullshit me. What gave it away was the way you practically teleported off the piano stool at the end. It's clearly sped up, so please don't try and pretend it isn't.


HaHaHaHa, ;D alright, I sped up the last frames, starting with the last note of the piece, for SHEER VISUAL EFFECT; the rest  of the video is in real time!!!! But I'm glad you think it's sped up, that's just what I wanted people to think.

Cheers, Octave

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #58 on: April 15, 2016, 02:34:35 AM »
@adodd81802 Regarding your question about Gaspard, I think it's gotten a bad rap from pianists the world over mainly for its awkward passages involving juxtaposition of the hands in certain passages, leaps while crossing one hand over the other, and for  prerequisites such as extremely fine and ethereal tonal shading and aural craftsmanship required to pull it off convicingly. I've never played it myself- but having browsed through it a few times in the past, it seems like a piece of cake to me- can't understand why it's considered to be so difficult - might be a question of endurance more than speed, idk.


...
...
...

WHAT???

Bruh after reading that I'm telling you right now that you can't play Gaspard.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #59 on: April 15, 2016, 03:44:40 AM »
@octave_revolutionary

I think for your next project you should play the aria from Bach's Goldberg Variations in octaves in 60 seconds.

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #60 on: April 15, 2016, 04:19:10 AM »
HaHaHaHa, ;D alright, I sped up the last frames, starting with the last note of the piece, for SHEER VISUAL EFFECT; the rest  of the video is in real time!!!! But I'm glad you think it's sped up, that's just what I wanted people to think.

Cheers, Octave

Okay - no offense, but the fact that you even sped up a SINGLE FRAME in that video makes me suspect. Seriously... given that - I don't think that I can believe anything you post.

Also, so far you haven't showed us a single piece of VISUAL evidence that you can play anything musical. Any chance of seeing you play the piano without pounding the sh*t out of it?

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #61 on: April 15, 2016, 04:43:25 AM »
I must say, I'm a little skeptical too. Not just because we can't see you in that Schubert recording but because the sound quality is so much better than in all you other videos.

I don't think anybody would deny that you have some serious chops but honestly, I think you'll get more respect by acknowledging your limitations.

Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #62 on: April 15, 2016, 05:25:12 AM »
At the 16 second mark - there are bass notes pounding, yet no arm movement.
ps… sounds great… no really ….. 
4'33"

Offline jimroof

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #63 on: April 15, 2016, 12:39:19 PM »
HaHaHaHa, ;D alright, I sped up the last frames, starting with the last note of the piece, for SHEER VISUAL EFFECT; the rest  of the video is in real time!!!! But I'm glad you think it's sped up, that's just what I wanted people to think.

Cheers, Octave

If you DID speed up the last few frames 'for visual effect', then that tells me two things...

1.  You are an idiot for doing something to call your 'Herculean effort' into question.

2.  You are obsessed with the APPEARANCE of things as opposed to the reality.

Regardless, sped up or not, there is not one scintilla of musical expression that I have been exposed to in any of your videos. 

I would be more impressed by someone playing expressively and beautifully from Anna Magdalena than this kind of twisted 'piano for sport' used oats.
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Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #64 on: April 20, 2016, 07:27:39 AM »
No doubt it is difficult, but nobody who could get me to playing 10/12 like this because it is pretty ugly compared to the original.
Post something that requires skill and play it musically. That is alot more impressive to me.
1+1=11

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #65 on: April 20, 2016, 09:30:26 AM »
I don't want it to seem like I'm being too critical of @octave_revolutionary but I thought for contrast I would post here a video of another Chopin study in octaves. Personally I think if you are going to mess with the Chopin etudes, this is that way to do it;


Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #66 on: April 20, 2016, 10:16:18 AM »
I wouldn't quite say 'mess' the chopin Etudes, Godowsky was talented, and had some incredible ideas and challenges for the Chopin etudes.

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #67 on: April 20, 2016, 12:09:53 PM »
I wouldn't quite say 'mess' the chopin Etudes, Godowsky was talented, and had some incredible ideas and challenges for the Chopin etudes.

I actually meant 'mess with' as in 'play around with'. I actually love Godowsky's music (including his Chopin paraphrases) and in particular his Java Suite

Offline chopinlover01

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #68 on: April 21, 2016, 01:26:36 AM »
Dear God. You're like the Chris Brown of pianos; no musical talent and just beats the sh*t out of everything.
Jazz Ambassador 8)

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #69 on: April 21, 2016, 05:04:35 AM »
You're like the Chris Brown of pianos; no musical talent and just beats the sh*t out of everything.

DAMNIT, that made me laugh my arse off. Almost as much as this.


Offline octave_revolutionary

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #70 on: April 21, 2016, 07:33:47 AM »
Dear God. You're like the Chris Brown of pianos; no musical talent and just beats the sh*t out of everything.

Hahahah,  ;D ;D ;D Hey, don't be so hard on me- you're scaring away all the ladies!!!!   :D ;D

Offline stevensk

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #71 on: April 21, 2016, 08:21:57 AM »
Oh, why??  >:(  I hate this kind of octave pecking bombastic pianoplaying. Is it an improvement of Chopin´s etudes? -No!! Its just silly and really bad taste. No wonder people prefer Richard Clayderman

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #72 on: April 21, 2016, 09:43:09 AM »
Hahahah,  ;D ;D ;D Hey, don't be so hard on me- you're scaring away all the ladies!!!!   :D ;D

Show us something that is meticulously played with intricacy and feeling, and your stocks will definitely rise...

Offline pianiststrongbad

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #73 on: April 21, 2016, 02:30:41 PM »
The number of posts which dislike this video is staggering. It reminds me of reading Godowsky's critics reviews.

Sure, in this arrangement I think the balance is off between the hands, and I prefer the original, but from a purely technical standpoint I was impressed.

To the OP: Have you considered recording Erlkonig or something else that does contain a lot of octaves? It might be better received.

Offline jimroof

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #74 on: April 21, 2016, 02:57:22 PM »
The number of posts which dislike this video is staggering. It reminds me of reading Godowsky's critics reviews.

Sure, in this arrangement I think the balance is off between the hands, and I prefer the original, but from a purely technical standpoint I was impressed.

To the OP: Have you considered recording Erlkonig or something else that does contain a lot of octaves? It might be better received.

The guy shows up here flaunting his technique, admits that he sped up the video in one instance in which it was obvious, bellyaches about nobody inviting him to play anywhere, treats piano as a sport in which the goal is to go as fast as possible, murders the composer's intent in the process, and ignores the thousands of EXCELLENT works from the repertoire that COULD showcase his purported skills.

To me it is not just a matter of preferring the original to his rendition because there is an imbalance in his playing.  It is the utter disregard for the music that has aroused my hatred for his renditions.  It is distasteful, impudent, rude and an offense to the very concept of music.

The guy actually commented on Valentina L's performance of the Chopin Etude 10, #2 that HE CAN PLAY IT IN UNDER A MINUTE.  I did not know that Longines was the official stopwatch of the Chopin Competition.
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #75 on: April 21, 2016, 11:02:21 PM »
The guy actually commented on Valentina L's performance of the Chopin Etude 10, #2 that HE CAN PLAY IT IN UNDER A MINUTE. 

Okay - that right there is just pathetic. Using someone elses videos to advertise your own?

Have you no shame 'octaves'???

Offline ahoffmann

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #76 on: April 22, 2016, 05:40:08 AM »
The guy actually commented on Valentina L's performance of the Chopin Etude 10, #2 that HE CAN PLAY IT IN UNDER A MINUTE.

Yay. That's just what we needed. Speed contests and comment wars about who's faster. It's not surprising then that people cheat and leave out notes like Lisitsa. Or alter the video to speed it up.

What most people don't seem to realize is that you can't even compare speed in this way because we're all playing on very different pianos. There's a world of difference between playing on a light touch piano (and even use a pedal that makes it lighter still) and an elephant.
And then there's often lack of clarity or they add reverb to make it more blurry so you can't even hear the individual notes - which creates the acoustic illusion of speed. Try it for yourself. Record yourself playing some really hard piece in an insane speed but ignore precision and muddle as much as you want. Then add reverb to the recording until all the blemishes and inaccuracies are blurred out.
It's like artificially placing the proverbial closed door that makes anyone on the other side sound amazing, between yourself and the audience.


Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #77 on: April 22, 2016, 09:33:35 AM »
It's not surprising then that people cheat and leave out notes like Lisitsa.

EXCUSE ME??? I've listened to a great many of her performances, and I've yet to hear her miss out any notes, thank you very much.

Proof?

Offline ahoffmann

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #78 on: April 22, 2016, 09:52:02 AM »
EXCUSE ME??? I've listened to a great many of her performances, and I've yet to hear her miss out any notes, thank you very much.

Proof?

Just take a look at her chromatic etude. For what seems like the majority of the time, she only plays the bottom note of the right hand chords.

Offline visitor

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #79 on: April 22, 2016, 10:08:48 AM »

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #80 on: April 22, 2016, 11:42:00 AM »
Just take a look at her chromatic etude. For what seems like the majority of the time, she only plays the bottom note of the right hand chords.

Okay... After having seen the clip again (last time seeing it being several years ago), I'll admit that I think 'majority' is wrong, but there are a number of missing notes. Quite a few times, her 2nd finger seems to hover in the air, strangely enough.

Offline ahoffmann

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #81 on: April 22, 2016, 11:59:40 AM »
Okay... After having seen the clip again (last time seeing it being several years ago), I'll admit that I think 'majority' is wrong, but there are a number of missing notes. Quite a few times, her 2nd finger seems to hover in the air, strangely enough.

Well I didn't count it but it's definitely not just a few. I wanted to be sure before accusing her of cheating so I watched it at half-speed and was pretty shocked at how shamelessly she leaves out notes. And I've seen others do worse than that even. I don't trust any of Paul Barton's performances.

It's awful really because aspiring pianists see these things and feel pressure to measure up to a standard that doesn't even exist.

Offline jimroof

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #82 on: April 22, 2016, 02:14:22 PM »
Yay. That's just what we needed. Speed contests and comment wars about who's faster. It's not surprising then that people cheat and leave out notes like Lisitsa. Or alter the video to speed it up.

What most people don't seem to realize is that you can't even compare speed in this way because we're all playing on very different pianos. There's a world of difference between playing on a light touch piano (and even use a pedal that makes it lighter still) and an elephant.
And then there's often lack of clarity or they add reverb to make it more blurry so you can't even hear the individual notes - which creates the acoustic illusion of speed. Try it for yourself. Record yourself playing some really hard piece in an insane speed but ignore precision and muddle as much as you want. Then add reverb to the recording until all the blemishes and inaccuracies are blurred out.
It's like artificially placing the proverbial closed door that makes anyone on the other side sound amazing, between yourself and the audience.



The una corda pedal will lighten up the action on an upright (it is not really a UNA corda pedal on an upright as much as it is a 'let's take about 1/8" out of the key action" pedal).  However, on a grand, the una corda shifts the entire keyboard while doing nothing to lighten up the action.  I am not sure if the damper pedal on either piano makes any significant difference on the action.  It could, in theory, because the key stroke is no longer needed to power the dampers lifting.
Chopin Ballades
Chopin Scherzos 2 and 3
Mephisto Waltz 1
Beethoven Piano Concerto 3
Schumann Concerto Am
Ginastera Piano Sonata
L'isle Joyeuse
Feux d'Artifice
Prokofiev Sonata Dm

Offline ahoffmann

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #83 on: April 22, 2016, 02:28:44 PM »
The una corda pedal will lighten up the action on an upright (it is not really a UNA corda pedal on an upright as much as it is a 'let's take about 1/8" out of the key action" pedal).  However, on a grand, the una corda shifts the entire keyboard while doing nothing to lighten up the action.

Exactly. But some grand pianos also have what the upright has as its left pedal for the explicit purpose of making the action lighter so that fast pieces can be played more easily. I believe Fazioli have at least one model with that.

Also just the action itself is more precise on a good concert grand. In particular the escapement is often non-existent on lower quality pianos. I'm often surprised at how people underestimate the difference this makes - especially with pieces like La Campanella.

Offline octave_revolutionary

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Re: Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in Octaves!
«Reply #84 on: May 21, 2016, 02:24:21 PM »
For those of you that enjoyed listening to my version of Chopin's 'Revolutionary' Etude (and for those who believe that the left hand shouldn't play it in octaves  ;)), here's another version that you might like, too:



Personally, I'm not really crazy about this version; - but now that I also mentioned Chopin's Op.10,#2 in my first post of this thread, here's a jazzed-up arrangement of it by that same guy:



Now I don't care what anybody says- that version of Op. 10,#2 is simply BRILLIANT  :o :o :D