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Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano (Read 6017 times)

Offline dddddmajor

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Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano
« on: March 30, 2016, 05:52:46 AM »
Long time no see, it has been a long time since I posted a question about grand pianos, but guess what?  My family ended up buying a continental piano to use temporarily. Though I think the continental piano is quite lame, since it's 20 years old and we paid only 1700 NZD for it(I'm quite surprised by the fact that it doesn't even have underfelts on its hammers), considering that my family are still eating up the savings, i believe we got the good deal. Here's the good news:My father finally got 7.0 on IELTS, which means that my family would be able to get residency... etc.. On the top of that,
My father would finally be employed. He's an IT security supervisor. Anyway, my mother says that assuming that my father gets employed next month, my family would be able to afford a new piano by my birthday, which is Jul 5th, after selling that lame console piano.
Hence, fortunately for me, my family's budget has increased to 20000$ this time, because I can play some good peaceful pieces like Chopin's valse and Paganini variations, instead of intense pieces like chopin's etude.
After days of researching, I'm quite confused of Roland's v piano. It features a physical modelings and some fancy technologies, does that mean it is just like the Steinway if i adjUst sounds with my macbook and pianoteq? Steinway model D for 20000$? I highly doubt that. I went to the Rockshop(instrument store) by myself after finding out that they have a v-piano grand in stock and noticed that keys feel quite nice, like that of Kawai's ca97, but the price that the staff told me was quite ridiculous in my opinion, 19900NzD for a digital piano :(. BUT If v-piano can perfectly imitate the world's best pianos, like bosendorfer and faziolis, i would definitely go with the v-piano.

But if v-piano isn't that good, there are good second-hand pianos in trademe, such as this Yamaha C5 http://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/keyboards-piano/grand-pianos/auction-1060140139.htm
, which would be quite nice to have it in the storage room.

and C3 of similar price, but newer.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/keyboards-piano/grand-pianos/auction-1056943822.htm
Which one would be better, Virtual piano or a real grand piano to learn classical pieces? I don't like how the acoustics require regulating every year, my family paid 80$ to regulate the lame piano this year, that would be one of the reasons why I have electric piano in mind.
I would appreciate the opinions of those who  own a v-piano.

Offline huaidongxi

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Re: Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano
«Reply #1 on: March 30, 2016, 08:43:04 AM »
congratulations on the changes in your family's improved situation.  having the means to acquire a quality instrument is a wonderful blessing.

since it appears you have access to yamaha pianos, you might benefit from going to a showroom where their conventional grand pianos and their hybrid pianos (playing actions are duplicated from acoustic instruments, as are touch responsiveness, reproduced sounds are detailed samples from top of the line concert grand pianos) are both available to play and compare.  their latest generation of hybrid pianos are quite expensive, but never require tuning and regulation, and have received many positive reviews as far as their sound, touch, and sensitive response.

heard these hybrid pianos for the first time recently myself.  an obviously advanced player was trying them out in a high end piano store (also one of the area's oldest and largest yamaha dealers) where I was shopping for an adjustable bench.  after he played a dozen measures or so of billy strayhorn's ' A Flower is a Lovesome Thing' I appreciated how well he played, but fairly amazed as well at the sound of the instrument.  it was not distinguishable from a full sized acoustic piano and clearly responded to the player's touch and expressive nuances comparable to high quality conventional piano.  their high cost to some degree goes into a high fidelity sound reproduction system with excellent speakers, along with all the sensors and converters responding to the nuances in the key and hammer strikes.

the hybrid pianos can't qualify as impressive material objects like real grands, but you seem to like the no-maintenance aspect.  if being able to practice at all hours without bothering others is a big plus for you, no harm in trying them out.  as for the two pianos advertised in the links you've shown, you'd have to play them both quite a bit to know which is the better one for you.  there are other variables between the two pianos that could have much more impact than their size or age.

enjoy your quest.

Offline indianajo

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Re: Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano
«Reply #2 on: March 30, 2016, 12:00:59 PM »
A real piano will last 120 years, a digital will last 10.
My 1941 Steinway needs a little regulating with a sticky key in the dry winter, but the 1982 Sohmer I bought new has never needed any adjustment.  Every 75 years maybe  real pianos need regulating.  Tuning, yes, but I do that myself.  **** pro was tuning 1/4 tone flat, and sold me a useless piano humidifier with my house only 1/2 mile from the Ohio river.  
There are a lot of **** consoles out there, and some outstanding ones.  I play Baldwins in 3 churches, all from the 50's or 60's.  One has a sticky key in dry winter weather.  I play Wurlitzers in two churches, both are fine.  I've tuned 2 of the Baldwins and the one of the Wurlitzers.  Nobody else will.  I use a tuning fork.  
I'm not going to tell you what brand to buy since your market is so different, but I hate the sound of the two Yamaha consoles I've heard.  The Yamaha grands sound okay, but they should at that price.  Kawai consoles and grands sound better IMHO.  However, I have such a great choice of premium pianos from $50-$550 (top limit for a 74" grand) I don't see why anybody here would buy new except that the salesman turns women on.  Steinway, Baldwin, Wurlitzer, Sohmer, Chickering, Mason & Hamlin,, pre globalization are all great pianos.  Story & Clark, Everett, Knabe, Grinell Bros of Detroit are very good. Kimbal wears out fast, the same allegation has been made here of Essex.   Winter and Williams are trash, There are other trash pianos, be suspicious of anything with a door for a player mechanism.  Count the missing dampers <18 and look to see if the scale allows room to tune top strings without a wedge.  Those signs of a premium piano.  Inspect used pianos with this regime before involving the tech:  http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=56680.0
Happy shopping. 
My sister-in-law bought one with lions on the casting, pretty case and **** mechanism. 
Tuning is such a no-big-deal, I'm expecting changing a felt or two is nothing much either.  I've already changed two strings, no mystery to that either.  
Go look at some 15 year old rubber product like a tire, then imagine that as the contacts in your "piano".  Felt and maple wood are  better materials for a piano.  And a spruce soundboard.  Make sure your roof is dry and buy above the flood level, a good wood/felt piano should outlast you.

Offline hfmadopter

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Re: Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano
«Reply #3 on: March 30, 2016, 03:14:22 PM »
All I can say is WOW.
Depressing the pedal on an out of tune acoustic piano and playing does not result in tonal color control or add interest, it's called obnoxious.

Offline iansinclair

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Re: Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano
«Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 04:55:46 PM »
At your price point -- or quite possibly for somewhat less -- I would think you could find an older, well-loved and cared for "real" grand of any of the major makes.  You may have to put up with casework which is, perhaps, not new (or even close!) -- scratches and the like, perhaps even damaged veneer -- but with the action and strings in decent shape and the sound board in excellent shape.

The trick is to find one which you love, and to do that you will need to find several piano dealers which handle used pianos.  Alternatively, a few good (like really good) piano technicians who might know someone who has one.

It will probably need some tuning and perhaps regulation.  But even the very best digitals -- which will cost very nearly as much -- aren't really the same.

Just my thinking...
Ian

Offline jimroof

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Re: Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano
«Reply #5 on: March 31, 2016, 06:49:01 PM »
A real piano will last 120 years, a digital will last 10.
My 1941 Steinway needs a little regulating with a sticky key in the dry winter, but the 1982 Sohmer I bought new has never needed any adjustment.  Every 75 years maybe  real pianos need regulating.  Tuning, yes, but I do that myself.  **** pro was tuning 1/4 tone flat, and sold me a useless piano humidifier with my house only 1/2 mile from the Ohio river.  
There are a lot of **** consoles out there, and some outstanding ones.  I play Baldwins in 3 churches, all from the 50's or 60's.  One has a sticky key in dry winter weather.  I play Wurlitzers in two churches, both are fine.  I've tuned 2 of the Baldwins and the one of the Wurlitzers.  Nobody else will.  I use a tuning fork.  
I'm not going to tell you what brand to buy since your market is so different, but I hate the sound of the two Yamaha consoles I've heard.  The Yamaha grands sound okay, but they should at that price.  Kawai consoles and grands sound better IMHO.  However, I have such a great choice of premium pianos from $50-$550 (top limit for a 74" grand) I don't see why anybody here would buy new except that the salesman turns women on.  Steinway, Baldwin, Wurlitzer, Sohmer, Chickering, Mason & Hamlin,, pre globalization are all great pianos.  Story & Clark, Everett, Knabe, Grinell Bros of Detroit are very good. Kimbal wears out fast, the same allegation has been made here of Essex.   Winter and Williams are trash, There are other trash pianos, be suspicious of anything with a door for a player mechanism.  Count the missing dampers <18 and look to see if the scale allows room to tune top strings without a wedge.  Those signs of a premium piano.  Inspect used pianos with this regime before involving the tech:  http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=56680.0
Happy shopping. 
My sister-in-law bought one with lions on the casting, pretty case and **** mechanism. 
Tuning is such a no-big-deal, I'm expecting changing a felt or two is nothing much either.  I've already changed two strings, no mystery to that either.  
Go look at some 15 year old rubber product like a tire, then imagine that as the contacts in your "piano".  Felt and maple wood are  better materials for a piano.  And a spruce soundboard.  Make sure your roof is dry and buy above the flood level, a good wood/felt piano should outlast you.


Maybe... maybe not.  Wood parts absorb moisture then dry out, then repeat the cycle over and over again.  Felt wears out.  Soundboards lose their crowns eventually.  The piano that actually lasts 100 years is able to do so because much of that piano is NOT 100 years old.  And if the soundboard fails... it is probably toast. 

I have had friends brag about the grand piano they just bought and I would play and just be aghast at the terrible action and weak sound. 

So, I will agree that a wood/felt piano will make SOUND a hundred years from now whereas a digital will likely have failed due to a breakdown of electronics, but the real piano will not sound like it did when it was new unless major money has been invested in its upkeep.
Chopin Ballades
Chopin Scherzos 2 and 3
Mephisto Waltz 1
Beethoven Piano Concerto 3
Schumann Concerto Am
Ginastera Piano Sonata
L'isle Joyeuse
Feux d'Artifice
Prokofiev Sonata Dm

Offline iansinclair

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Re: Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano
«Reply #6 on: March 31, 2016, 09:05:52 PM »

Maybe... maybe not.  Wood parts absorb moisture then dry out, then repeat the cycle over and over again.  Felt wears out.  Soundboards lose their crowns eventually.  The piano that actually lasts 100 years is able to do so because much of that piano is NOT 100 years old.  And if the soundboard fails... it is probably toast. 

I have had friends brag about the grand piano they just bought and I would play and just be aghast at the terrible action and weak sound. 

So, I will agree that a wood/felt piano will make SOUND a hundred years from now whereas a digital will likely have failed due to a breakdown of electronics, but the real piano will not sound like it did when it was new unless major money has been invested in its upkeep.

Good buddy -- I will put my 118 year old Steinway A up against a modern one any day of the week.  It has the original action, though it did get new pins and strings about 30 years ago.  Power, tone, anything you name.  Tender loving routine care and tuning, that's all.  No major money.
Ian

Offline iansinclair

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Re: Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano
«Reply #7 on: April 01, 2016, 02:14:59 AM »
I might add that I recently was privileged to have a chance to play an 1880 Steinway concert grand (like a D, but slightly different in terms of scale and overstring arrangement).  Again, original action (which could have used some regulation; a couple of notes had repetition problems) but newer strings and pins.  The case was wildly over the top -- one of these art case things -- but other than a bit of a buzz on a couple of notes (traced to the candle holders -- really, you can't make these things up -- which had cupids on them) it was right up to snuff.

On the other hand, I will admit that a piano which was not a top quality instrument to begin with can be junk in a matter of 40 to 50 years, as can even a top quality instrument which has been seriously abused (modern forced air heat being one of the worst offenders).

But you can't generalise.
Ian

Offline indianajo

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Re: Roland's V-piano grand VS real grand piano
«Reply #8 on: April 01, 2016, 02:02:04 PM »
Not just Steinways can last.  They were built for amazing numbers of  hours of use, but other great pianos weren't used all that much, and many will last at least half as many hours.  
The Baldwin Acrosonic with the ivory keys I play in one church Sunday School room, is probably 70 years old. It has a beautiful sound and action.  I doubt if anything was  ever done to it but tuning, since It is missing two key tops.  
I played many old pre WWII uprights in Sunday School rooms when I was young in the fifties and early sixties.  None of them had any maintenance.  you could tell by the many missing ivory key tops. That building had no air conditioning, in humid Houston.   Most of them played very well, and sounded about like they originally did.  I like the tinkly pre WWII upright sound for 1890-1920 pop ragtime and boogie-woogie music, but am too old to collect one and move it in myself because of the 400 lb weight.  And the local piano mover won't touch them.  
I don't understand why grands would be more finicky than uprights.  The professional grade ones can be beat to death, but it is the hours use that kills them, not the years of sitting in the living room.  A local church accepted donation of a 9' "Coruna" grand with the tilde over the n.  It is a great sounding old piano, fairly ancient to look at it.  
I've pleyed five pianos made in the orient post 1980.  Three of them were junk.  The Pearl River 44" my friend wouldn't let me play it with the string missing having broken the  fourth time.  My sister in law's lion head console is slow and puky sounding, the globalized Wurlitzer had inconsistent action soft and sounded cheap in the top octaves, The Yamaha played okay but bass sound was poor, the Kawai was okay in all respects.  The junk goes right out the doors these days with lots of glowing testimonies from good looking salesmen.  I would be suspicious of any piano made post 1980 that wasn't a Steinway, Yamaha, Kawai, Mason & Hamlin.  There are so many great forties to seventies consoles out there that were used as furniture and not played enough to wear them out.  These go for not much because nobody is marketing them. There are salemen like previous poster that make up fairy tales about old pianos to scare people off.  
One overseas brand that has gotten some posts here was Dominion.