Broad Discussion and Example Recording - Chopin Etude Op. 25, No 12 in C minor

[visitor]

*i'm not an elistist. ....

[darkpisces]

...

[darkpisces]

Hey man, I'm not the one comparing myself to Sokolov lol. FYI, that's not the way Sokolov plays the etude. I have the recording and Sokolov knows better than to abruptly stop on any beat.

Yes, you have secondary rhythmic accents where they are unmarked. Like on each quarter note.

Also, no you're not a troll for posting. You're a troll for being comically bad and being unable to realize it.

Comparing myself to Sokolov? By saying that I played those sections in the way that he does? That's not a comparison. You may as well say we are all comparing ourselves to Chopin by playing his music. And I'm the troll? You don't know what a troll is do you? Because it has nothing to do with being ''comically bad''

Well you just insulted Sokolov didn't you? Here's one of the recordings where he stops on each first note of the melody sections in the choruses, and you'll hear that I am only stating facts, if he didn't play it like this, I wouldn't have said he did so you are practically calling me a liar and or challenging Sokolov's playing. I'm pretty sure we're not going to take stock from an elitist.

Here is a recording where he plays it like this. Go to 30:00 mins in and behold this fact being proven -

[jinfiesto]

God I haven't seen the 5th element in a long time. Such a great quote. I am in fact a meat popsicle.

If you can't tell the difference between Sokolov's rubato and your "rubato," I don't know what to tell you.

And yes, a troll is someone who puts forth an incendiary opinion without being able to listen to the arguments of their peers. Being grossly incompetent then taking a strong position defending your incompetence and then not being able to realize it is clearly a subset of the above.

I wouldn't call you a troll if you just disagreed with me, since hey, it's just my opinion man. But since you can't seem to take anybody's advice, I'm going to call you a troll.

But hey, maybe you actually have no peers, are a god amongst us mere mortals, and all of us plebs have no ground on which to give you advice/criticism.

Not calling you a liar, just an imbecile.  

*BTW, I think many would find the statement that Sokolov is the GREATEST EVARRRRRRR to be questionable. He's obviously amazing, but "Greatest Ever?" Who knows. But hey, that's just my opinion.

[darkpisces]

God I haven't seen the 5th element in a long time. Such a great quote. I am in fact a meat popsicle.

If you can't tell the difference between Sokolov's rubato and your "rubato," I don't know what to tell you.

And yes, a troll is someone who puts forth an incendiary opinion without being able to listen to the arguments of their peers. Being comically bad then taking a strong position defending your incompetence and then not being able to realize it is clearly a subset of the above.

I wouldn't call you a troll if you just disagreed with me, since hey, it's just my opinion man. But since you can't seem to take anybody's advice, I'm going to call you a troll.

But hey, maybe you actually have no peers, are a god amongst us mere mortals, and all of us plebs have no ground on which to give you advice/criticism.

*BTW, I think many would find the statement that Sokolov is the GREATEST EVARRRRRRR to be questionable. He's obviously amazing, but "Greatest Ever?" Who knows. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Of course there are differences, I didn't say there wasn't but the approach on the melody is very similar, you cannot deny he paused on those first melody notes BIG TIME just like I did, the same thing you assumed he didn't do, he actually did, point proven, you failed to troll. I am not here to seek that elitistic assertive ''you are playing it wrong, why did you do that'' sort of thing that you call ''advice''. You were just plain out rude, I don't want to take any of that advice, this is not the student's corner, it is the performance corner. I already know all the things you told me anyway, you judged me off of one small recording, without knowing I have a plethora of ways to play this. And sorry but Sokolov is the greatest living pianist, yeah you can call that an opinion but nobody plays like Sokolov, HE is the god among us, I never claimed to be, but you kind of did with your forced ''advice''

[jinfiesto]

Of course there are differences, I didn't say there wasn't but the approach on the melody is very similar, you cannot deny he paused on those first melody notes BIG TIME just like I did, the same thing you assumed he didn't do, he actually did, point proven, you failed to troll. I am not here to seek that elitistic assertive ''you are playing it wrong, why did you do that'' sort of thing that you call ''advice''. You were just plain out rude, I don't want to take any of that advice, this is not the student's corner, it is the performance corner. I already know all the things you told me anyway, you judged me off of one small recording, without knowing I have a plethora of ways to play this. And sorry but Sokolov is the greatest living pianist, yeah you can call that an opinion but nobody plays like Sokolov, HE is the god among us, I never claimed to be, but you kind of did with your forced ''advice''

Translation:

THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BUT I PLAYED IT THE SAME!!!! BOW TO SOKOLOV YOUR NEW PIANO OVERLORD!!!!! IF I JUST MINDLESSLY APE SOKOLOV ALL MY MUSICAL DECISIONS WILL BE BEYOND REPROACH!!! WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!?!?!?!?!

[outin]

Comparing myself to Sokolov? By saying that I played those sections in the way that he does? 

I would still suggest you try to get some lessons because I feel your time would then be better spend towards your goal (assuming your goal is to play in a way that would be enjoyable for any critical listener). We don't take lessons just to learn how to do. We need objective ears to evaluate our playing, that way we gradually learn how and what to listen for ourselves. Learning to execute is just one part of it, you don't sound like Sokolov until you learn to hear everything while doing it and thus achieve full control of the instrument and awareness of where the music going in any situation. Fast learners are sometimes able to execute things fast and complicated without having developed this other side much, but at some point it has to be done to become a performer really worth listening.

So lessons don't need to be about being shown what to do and then imitate. For me they are just complementing a lot of self study. My teacher gives me feedback on how I actually sound like and suggests something that might help to improve the result. But I still do the work at home, figure out the way to achieve the better results and practice really hearing myself while playing. The more demanding the pieces, the more difficult it is to maintain such awareness.