I played horribly with my new teacher, is it grave?

[faa2010]

Last Monday, I went with a new teacher, after many weeks of waiting, so she could check the pieces I am learning and practicing.

However, before that audition, I went with my another and current teacher to check the repertoire. That day she was more severe than usual, she started to tell me that I went backwards, that I wasn´t playing with security, but the worst of all, it came a moment when I felt she was so impatient that when she took my right wrist just to put an example of how tensed I was, that it hurt me and stressed me more.

Also, while she took me to the school where I was going to see my new teacher, she started to do negative comments about trivial things, making me feel worse after I felt a bad treatment from her in her class.

As you can guess, my results were not the ones I expected with my new teacher. 

To my fortune or not, my new teacher was part of the jury of my current teacher, both seem to be friends and it was the idea of my first teacher to take also classes with her even she asked her to take me. They seem to be always in contact so if I see the second teacher, she informs it to the first one, so if there are bad news, she gets nervous and anxious and she can freak out with me.

I am relaxed right now, but I feel somewhat worry about the bad impression I gave, even the new teacher detected that I was feeling bad. At least she told me that she was going to see me again next week, and that I should have a little notebook in order to write my progress, exercises and homework.

Also yesterday, not sure to take it as an indirect agression, my first teacher told me that the reason was that I need more experience and maturity.

Is there something I can do?

[dogperson]

Experience and maturity?   We all need it, regardless of our age.
My advice to you:  follow the directions and the practice suggestions given by your teachers. Keep the notebook; list out or mark your scores with questions for your teachers in your next lessons. Personally, I add question marks to my scores or sometimes afix sticky notes for what I want to ask about. 

 But most, importantly, quit viewing lessons as an 'opportunity to perform' but rather as 'an opportunity to LEARN'. 

When you start focusing on the opportunity to learn, you will look at your flaws as something your teacher(s) can help you correct...  rather than an evaluation. This will also decrease the tension in your playing.

Was this change in mental perspective a hard lesson for me to learn?  You bet, as we all want to impress.  But a lesson is not one of those moments when you need to be impressive. ... 

[bronnestam]

I wouldn't worry about "the teacher's impression of me" for a second.

This is a person you hire in order to help you learn things. You are the client, you pay, and if you are not pleased with their way of teaching, you quit. Remember, you are not there to apply for an employment - it is the opposite, YOU are the employer. And you pay to get encouraged, not to be hurt, insulted or just feel miserable.

I don't mean you have to be an arrogant a***, thinking someone else should fix your problems while you are just being lazy. Of course not. But remember why you take lessons. You don't do it to please them, and certainly not to make a good impression.

The advice about the notebook was good; see it as a tool to help you. THAT is what you pay for.

 
 

[faa2010]

I wouldn't worry about "the teacher's impression of me" for a second.

This is a person you hire in order to help you learn things. You are the client, you pay, and if you are not pleased with their way of teaching, you quit. Remember, you are not there to apply for an employment - it is the opposite, YOU are the employer. And you pay to get encouraged, not to be hurt, insulted or just feel miserable.

I don't mean you have to be an arrogant a***, thinking someone else should fix your problems while you are just being lazy. Of course not. But remember why you take lessons. You don't do it to please them, and certainly not to make a good impression.

The advice about the notebook was good; see it as a tool to help you. THAT is what you pay for.

 
 

I like your advice, about being a client, I think I can apply it with my first teacher.

About the second, it is only That I am becoming a profesional musician and she is my teacher formally, where I need to get good grades or I will get expelled, can this advice be applied there as well?

[quantum]

I like your advice, about being a client, I think I can apply it with my first teacher.

About the second, it is only That I am becoming a profesional musician and she is my teacher formally, where I need to get good grades or I will get expelled, can this advice be applied there as well?

We all have days that don't seem to run smoothly.  Just move on to focusing on the next lesson.  Agree with above posters, you are there to learn things and sometimes learning involves critique and hearing things we don't like or agree with.  However, you don't go lessons to be shamed and belittled and your teachers should be working with a sense of decency and empathy.  If this is a commonly recurring issue and it makes you uncomfortable, I would consider my options.

About the second, it is only That I am becoming a profesional musician and she is my teacher formally, where I need to get good grades or I will get expelled, can this advice be applied there as well?

One of my friends in university, a wind player, did not get along at all with the assigned teacher.  A petition was successful in obtaining permission to take lessons from a teacher external to the school.  So there are options.  However, your school may be different.  

[louispodesta]

Last Monday, I went with a new teacher, after many weeks of waiting, so she could check the pieces I am learning and practicing.

However, before that audition, I went with my another and current teacher to check the repertoire. That day she was more severe than usual, she started to tell me that I went backwards, that I wasn´t playing with security, but the worst of all, it came a moment when I felt she was so impatient that when she took my right wrist just to put an example of how tensed I was, that it hurt me and stressed me more.

Also, while she took me to the school where I was going to see my new teacher, she started to do negative comments about trivial things, making me feel worse after I felt a bad treatment from her in her class.

As you can guess, my results were not the ones I expected with my new teacher. 

To my fortune or not, my new teacher was part of the jury of my current teacher, both seem to be friends and it was the idea of my first teacher to take also classes with her even she asked her to take me. They seem to be always in contact so if I see the second teacher, she informs it to the first one, so if there are bad news, she gets nervous and anxious and she can freak out with me.

I am relaxed right now, but I feel somewhat worry about the bad impression I gave, even the new teacher detected that I was feeling bad. At least she told me that she was going to see me again next week, and that I should have a little notebook in order to write my progress, exercises and homework.

Also yesterday, not sure to take it as an indirect agression, my first teacher told me that the reason was that I need more experience and maturity.

Is there something I can do?

You don't need us because you have obviously figured it out for yourself.  Based on what you have told us, you have been set up!

Oh no, my teacher (Mother Theresa of the Piano) would never do anything like that.  Hey, it happens all the time.

Students make their teachers into Friend/gods and then when it blows up in their faces, they cannot figure out how all of this happened.  I know you are a millennial, but have you ever heard of the telephone?

I am a classically trained pianist (UT Austin), and I am also a social activist philosopher.  Accordingly, in this particular instance, I am most familiar with the causality and its associate dynamic of your particular circumstance.

You appear to be a good and gentle soul who loves music, specifically the piano.  However, YOU HAVE BEEN ABUSED!

It has taken me a long to say what I have just said in those exact words.  However, as "dcstudio" cannot attest because she was not there (week in and week out), there are teachers out there who customarily malign their students (during an after the fact).

Therefore, in the interim, please contact me by PM, and I might be able to steer you to a new teacher who is Taubman/Golandsky based but not banded to.

You are not the problem/issue, you are the victim!

[quantum]

However, as "dcstudio" cannot attest because she was not there (week in and week out), there are teachers out there who customarily malign their students (during an after the fact).

Can you explain what dcstudio has to do with this topic?  So far she has not made a reply to this thread.

[vaniii]

Its funny really.

Some teachers are not aware how thier words can impact their students.

I really mean this: "Some teachers are not aware how thier words can impact thier students"

There is a need from both parties involved; the first, from the students who desperatly seeks approval; the second, from the teacher who desperately wants either a) to be taken seriously, or b) for their student to surpass them.

The day I started to play better as performer was the day I left my doubts behind; never forget, even the most successful musicians started in a position similar to the 'green' novice musician.  This multiplied tenfold when I realized that the 'destructive' comments were infact my mentor/teacher's own weaknesses.

Some memorable comments:

"You will never be able to play [X] piece; I can't even play X piece"
This teacher could not play it so belived it was impossible

"You can't just simply pick it up and play it"
This teacher could not sight-read music effectively, and so needed months 'perfect' before it was ready for public consumption

"Don't use your fourth finger, it is weak"
In retrospect, this angers me; I would not dream of saying this to a student, just imagine how much facility is lost by omitting a finger.  This teacher never learned to use thier hands correctly and so instructed me incorrectly.

"I would never play [X] piece for a recital, its too well known"
This teacher believed that because a piece of music is well known, I would be marked down if I did not play it to the level of a CD recording (for the record, I passed the recital with Distinction).

The list continues; majority of which are separate teachers and situations.

Someone mentioned experience and maturity, I would like to elaborate with my personal view on this.

When we are juvenile, we look to a more experienced person to tell us how we should react.  The 'green' musician looks to their teacher; the problem is, if the teacher is lacking the appropriate tools (referring to emotional and physiological response), it is likely they will project thier own doubts onto the person seeking guidance.

Put yourself in you teacher's position; you are referring a student of your own to a highly regarded colleague, held in high regard.  I am sure, if it was the first, and you were not fully sure of how the situation would unfold, you might also have doubts.  Furthermore, one might even unknowingly project these doubts onto you student.

Try not to take it personally; take solace in the fact that your teacher referred you in the first instance.

However, never forget that some teachers are not aware how their words impact their students.

Edit: I agree with Louis, however I do not share his cynicism ... well ... not completely.

[outin]

Therefore, in the interim, please contact me by PM, and I might be able to steer you to a new teacher who is Taubman/Golandsky based but not banded to.

Have you read the op's posts before? Do you have any idea where in the world she is situated and how she is studying? Making her more anxious than she already is with your scare tactics is irresponsible, won't help her and I doubt it will be possible for her to get to a teacher that you would approve.

[bronnestam]

I like your advice, about being a client, I think I can apply it with my first teacher.

About the second, it is only That I am becoming a profesional musician and she is my teacher formally, where I need to get good grades or I will get expelled, can this advice be applied there as well?

Being a professional musician is not like being, for example, a physician or a police, where you cannot work unless you have passed a certain education with approved results. Musicians belong to the artistical genre and there are no licenses for artists. In the end, it does not matter what their "papers" look like, which exams they have or not have passed.
If you are a dancer you go to auditions and if you dance well, you will get the job. They don't dismiss you when they see that you have not been to so-and-so dance school. If you write an excellent novel, the readers couldn't care less about your formal education as a writer.
 
I do not mean that formal education is pointless; it could of course be of the greatest help. But it is NOT mandatory, and therefore your whole future as a professional musician does not rely on you being expelled from a school because you and the teacher did not get along.

Besides it is not good for a school's reputation to kick students out because they are getting nervous in lesson time and do not improve in this aspect. That says far more about the school than about the student, and other students will hesitate to go there, which means the school will be out of business rather soon. They need students who graduate with great results even if they were bad at first, and who happily recommend the school to others.

So I think you should be very honest to your new teacher and spend some time talking about your concerns and how you feel. If you cannot trust her discretion and her will to help you, you will do better without her. But give her a chance first. And if you are too shy to have this one-to-one-talk ... ok, now I must be a bit harsh. I am not a professional musician myself but I know quite a lot about that world, and the world in general. If you are going to be professional, you simply have to be bold. You need elbows and thick skin, you must be able to face people who are not nice to you, who give you harsh and sometimes very unfair critizism, who are difficult to work with, and you must be able to communicate in a clear, honest way. I don't know how old you are, and of course you are not required to be more experienced and tough than your own grandpa before you are not even an adult, but be realistic. You cannot use "shyness" as an excuse in long terms to avoid potentially unpleasant confrontations, not if you are going to choose this career.

Besides I don't think the conversation will be unpleasant at all. Your honesty will be appreciated, provided that the teacher is sane.

PS. And to add some perspective to it: I gave up the idea of becoming a professional pianist even way back in my teen years, because I had a major problem with stage fright. (I still have.) I simply found recitals terrifying and then I had to ask myself why I should choose this torture as a profession.

[bernadette60614]

Something to consider:

If you became tense with your original teacher, and then each even tense with your new teacher, the issue to be addressed is now:  Did I make a bad impression on my new teacher...but how do I manage my frame of mind so I learn the most at each lesson?

I don't think teachers expect perfection...if so, they are in the wrong profession.  I think they want to have a student who is willing to learn and not to be defensive.

Just go in each week receptive to instruction....and having practiced and worked an appropriate amount.  You'll be fine!

[faa2010]

Hello everyone,

I have been better with my new teacher, in the end, many things became cleared and she is more relaxed.

However, my first teacher has become more intense and mad with me. She expects me to advance, so do myself, but at some point I became stalled, and her rantings and threats with me are making things worse.

I cried yesterday with her, she calmed down but I am afraid the damage is done: I dont want to continue playing piano, at least with her. Even though she might know what is the best for me.

Till the end of November, I need to have:
Invention 15 Bach
Mazurka of Ponce
Etude op 104 Presto Mendelssohn
Sonata, Hob. 16 No. 27 (at least 1st movement)

I am almost finished with the first 2, but the last ones are in a very delayed, well that's what my teacher said. The etude I have the half.

My new teacher is less strict, as long as she sees some advance in the first 2 pieces.

[bernadette60614]

If it were possible for me to teletransport myself to your location and scoop up Tyrant Teacher and whisk her away from you, I'd so do that.

What you described to me is lazy teaching.

A good teacher will demonstrate and explain how to achieve a certain effect. A bad teacher yells, screams and uses threats and intimidation.

I've had screamer teachers, and all I learned from them was that I never, ever, ever want to have that kind of teacher again.  About piano...virtually nothing.

Your Tyrant Teachers problem is not you, it is her approach.  If you are practicing and putting in the work, her job is to support and guide you and not beat you up verbally.

In retrospect, I wish I had said to my Tyrant Teacher: Thank you for telling me. Can you show me how to achieve what you want me to achieve..and take all the emotion out of it.

Hang in there.

[faa2010]

If it were possible for me to teletransport myself to your location and scoop up Tyrant Teacher and whisk her away from you, I'd so do that.

What you described to me is lazy teaching.

A good teacher will demonstrate and explain how to achieve a certain effect. A bad teacher yells, screams and uses threats and intimidation.

I've had screamer teachers, and all I learned from them was that I never, ever, ever want to have that kind of teacher again.  About piano...virtually nothing.

Your Tyrant Teachers problem is not you, it is her approach.  If you are practicing and putting in the work, her job is to support and guide you and not beat you up verbally.

In retrospect, I wish I had said to my Tyrant Teacher: Thank you for telling me. Can you show me how to achieve what you want me to achieve..and take all the emotion out of it.

Hang in there.

Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

Today I was with the second teacher, and she told me she will pass me, but next semester she will  decide my repertoire. I told her what has happened with the tyrant teacher, she told me she will want to talk with both of us, about the situation so the tyrant won't lose a fuse (I hope so).

What I need right now is a friend, someone whom I can trust where I live and contact and tell him/her my worries without getting bad consequences (eg do a gossip which will go to the tyrant's ears), in part I feel it is difficult to talk with someone because some teachers are too jealous and can freak out if they see their students "backstabbing" them, eg, they see another teacher for help, they go to another's teacher class just for curiosity.

[bronnestam]

You have a PM from me.
It is not your duty to learn a certain piece in a certain time, at least not as long as you are not a professional, getting paid to perform at a certain occasion. If your assignment needs more time, then it does.

In a few hours I will be at my next lesson and I am afraid I must tell the teacher I have not made the progress I wanted during the past fortnight. I am not going to make "excuses" because this is my problem and not hers, and she is paid to help me, not telling me I'm no good. She is a very nice and friendly person by the way, so we will just keep on working from where I am. What else is there to do? I believe teachers prefer to over-assign sometimes, so that there always will be water in the well, but lessons are lessons, not exams.

[louispodesta]

"Pianostreet Members":

Are you listening to yourselves?  You are not even remotely in control of your own musical destiny (if there is to be one).

As a "Pianist/Philosopher" (customarily ridiculed), I render my former expressed opinion, that: Over and over again, I read posts and their responses which encompass the predicate:  "My teacher this, and my teacher that."

I would genuinely pity you as students, if I had not  been blessed with my past and late teacher Robert Weaver.  As a true Pedagogue, if a particular student was progressing, he would allow that student to make all kinds of mistakes if they were in the process of "developing their own musical [voice] in the process."

Conversely, "Russian Style" control freaks do not even remotely follow this logic.  Their philosophy of pedagogy, (using an American metaphor) is succinctly stated:  "My way, or the Highway!"