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cryptic crossword help (Read 1108 times)

Offline swagmaster420x

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cryptic crossword help
« on: October 09, 2016, 12:39:28 AM »
Can someone help me with why the clue

A new key used by sergeant major to go into bar with musician (8)


has the answer bandsman?

Offline Bob

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #1 on: October 09, 2016, 02:11:05 AM »
I found this but....
http://crosswordpuzzle-solver.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-guardian-cryptic-august-3-2016.html


All of them look a bit off.  Why waste time on it?  It's probably a shortened description for a newspaper, but it still doesn't really make sense.  We're in music.  We don't have the military part but still.... The answer there is a person, a bandsman, not anything to do with a key.  The other clues are kind of strange too.  Who knows?  And really, who cares?  It's probably some linguist creating a crossword puzzle and clues, constrained by having to make it all fit and squeeze clues into the amount of space a newspaper can handle.  Crappy clue, I'd say.  Cyptic is true I guess, or more like "somewhat, not really, related."
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline swagmaster420x

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #2 on: October 09, 2016, 02:39:45 AM »
I found this but....
http://crosswordpuzzle-solver.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-guardian-cryptic-august-3-2016.html


All of them look a bit off.  Why waste time on it?  It's probably a shortened description for a newspaper, but it still doesn't really make sense.  We're in music.  We don't have the military part but still.... The answer there is a person, a bandsman, not anything to do with a key.  The other clues are kind of strange too.  Who knows?  And really, who cares?  It's probably some linguist creating a crossword puzzle and clues, constrained by having to make it all fit and squeeze clues into the amount of space a newspaper can handle.  Crappy clue, I'd say.  Cyptic is true I guess, or more like "somewhat, not really, related."
which other ones do not make sense? the point is that it's a trick, but one you should be able to spot and make sense of.

For example,

Licence to make product for iodine-deficient hospital inmate

is PATENT

because the definition is Licence and "iodine-deficient hospital inmate", the tricky part, means "patient" without the i (iodine-deficient).

Cryptic crosswords are puzzles. There are recurring types of tricks you can learn to recognize. Me and My friend and trying to learn how to do them. It's fun, and challenges your Mynd. Also teaches you random words if you don't know them.

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #3 on: October 09, 2016, 09:01:16 AM »
@ Bob: the format for cryptic crosswords is traditionally to have a straight definition part, a cryptic definition part and nothing else. In this case, 'musician' is the straight definition. I can't yet decipher the cryptic but I presume the sm comes from sergeant-major by dint of being the military abbreviation.

I'm not happy with the iodine-deficient example btw; that construction only subtracts the I from impatient but not the m..

Offline swagmaster420x

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #4 on: October 09, 2016, 09:40:55 AM »
@ Bob: the format for cryptic crosswords is traditionally to have a straight definition part, a cryptic definition part and nothing else. In this case, 'musician' is the straight definition. I can't yet decipher the cryptic but I presume the sm comes from sergeant-major by dint of being the military abbreviation.

I'm not happy with the iodine-deficient example btw; that construction only subtracts the I from impatient but not the m..

oooo.... the sm sounds promising.
also, where are you getting impatient? It's subtracting i from patient, not impatient.

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #5 on: October 09, 2016, 09:52:41 AM »
Oh, silly me! It's too early in the morning for me and I didn't read it carefully enough.

Offline Bob

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #6 on: October 09, 2016, 05:03:15 PM »
I had a feeling I missing something.  Still am.


Creature found in surprisingly edible stew   WILDEBEEST


A religious group embracing party leader's view   ASPECT
Bob:  So "ASPECT" is the group name here? 
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #7 on: October 09, 2016, 06:48:30 PM »
Definition: creature.
Cryptic: surprisingly edible stew. Surprisingly indicates (in this context) anagram, hence anagram of edible stew = wildebeest.

Definition: view.
Cryptic: A religious group = asect. Embracing party leader: party leader = p. Hence p inside asect so aspect.

Offline ted

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #8 on: October 09, 2016, 10:46:53 PM »
Ability in cryptic crosswords is a bit like being a strong card player; it is a special type of intelligence. I have known some people who are as thick as two planks at everyday reasoning but who can solve them in a few minutes. Regrettably, I don't seem to have what it takes.
"We're all bums when the wagon comes." - Waller

Offline Bob

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #9 on: October 10, 2016, 01:08:01 AM »
I see a bit more.

How about something with this?

bandsman
b and s man
B and S man

Or B, being the key and S-man being the sergeant?
B and Sman


But why would it have to be a *new* key? 
And why does it matter if they went into a bar?
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline swagmaster420x

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #10 on: October 10, 2016, 05:57:28 AM »
good questions.

Offline jeffok

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #11 on: October 10, 2016, 02:50:04 PM »
I do quite a lot of cryptic crosswords so I think I can explain how "bandsman" fits the clue. (By the way, if you're doing cryptics from British sources it really helps to be British, although I'm not.)

"A new key used by sergeant major to go into bar with musician."

Okay, first you need to know that the word "bar" is going to mean not "a pub" but "to prevent something" - i.e., a ban. You also need to know that the letter "n" is commonly used in cryptics as an abbreviation for "new". So now you have to fit "andsm" into the middle of the word "ban". From the clue "A" is "a", "new" is "n", "sergeant major" is "sm" - and there you go.

best wishes
jeff ok

Offline jeffok

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #12 on: October 10, 2016, 02:52:28 PM »
Oops. And I forgot to add that the "key" of the clue is musically meant and supplies the "d" in bandsman. Of course the "andsm" has to go immediately after the "b", so it's the final "an" that provide the last two letters of the word "ban".

best wishes,
jeff ok

Offline swagmaster420x

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #13 on: October 10, 2016, 05:20:43 PM »
Thank you. U are a winner. Piano street has a wonderful community.

Offline swagmaster420x

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #14 on: October 10, 2016, 08:28:38 PM »
Another strange one is

Batman in East, bearing note for sweetheart (9)

= VALENTINE

I'm almost certain Batman = VAL, for Val Kilmer (an actor who played batman). Everything else is up to speculation. in East could be INE (last letters of VALENTINE), but that leaves ENT. Confused again.

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #15 on: October 10, 2016, 08:31:29 PM »
Batman = valet. I'll let you work out the rest..


Offline swagmaster420x

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #16 on: October 10, 2016, 11:57:29 PM »
Batman = valet. I'll let you work out the rest..


Okay I was considering batman = valet but that did not make sense to me o.O since Bruce Wayne is not a valet, his butler is right.... ?

nvm its fu ccking britishology

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: cryptic crossword help
«Reply #17 on: October 11, 2016, 01:03:41 AM »
A batman is a UK army term for servant, valet, factotum, etc.