VIDEO: Chopin Op 10 No 1 in C major

[rakhmaninoff]

I am looking for technical advice.

To those who play close attention, it's clear there's ALOT of tension in my body from my mouth to my legs. I need to learn how to fix this and play more relaxed. When I play it a bit slower, I don't have that many issues with getting tired. However, when I play it at tempo my right forearm starts getting really sore around the reintroduction of Part A. I think a lot of this comes from being impatient and activating my fingers to play some of the notes rather than keeping my fingers and hand supple - waiting for my wrist to rotate and THROW my fingers INTO the appropriate notes.

So for those that have technical advice I'm all ears! Any comments negative or positive about the performance are fine too, bring it on! I just don't want this thread to get off-topic.


EDIT - Just realized the youtube video doesn't have sound. One second let me get that fixed!

EDIT 2 - Good to go! Video has sound.

[philolog]

I can't be sure, but i'm wondering if you don't have too much tension in your right shoulder: Perhaps you're holding your upper arm a bit too close to your body while simultaneously elevating the shoulder? Your fingers look fairly relaxed but stressed in certain of the arpeggios (it's not an easy piece, after all!).

These are just impressions, feel free to ignore my observations if they seem inaccurate, but I'm guessing that overall a bit more fluidity might help. Your left hand, in comparison, seems to adopt a fairly relaxed position with more "flow" between the parts. Of course it doesn't have very much to do! Still, maybe the left hand/arm complex could somehow instruct the right? Hope that's helpful...

[rakhmaninoff]

I can't be sure, but i'm wondering if you don't have too much tension in your right shoulder: Perhaps you're holding your upper arm a bit too close to your body while simultaneously elevating the shoulder? Your fingers look fairly relaxed but stressed in certain of the arpeggios (it's not an easy piece, after all!).

These are just impressions, feel free to ignore my observations if they seem inaccurate, but I'm guessing that overall a bit more fluidity might help. Your left hand, in comparison, seems to adopt a fairly relaxed position with more "flow" between the parts. Of course it doesn't have very much to do! Still, maybe the left hand/arm complex could somehow instruct the right? Hope that's helpful...

Thank you! Your observations are certainly helpful and gave me some ideas on how I can try to improve. Obviously need to spend time actively paying attention to and relaxing every part of my body. That will probably make the biggest difference if I can figure that out.

You're spot on about my fingers being stressed on certain passages - pretty astute observation! I wonder if I need to practice those parts over and over to iron out the inconsistencies or if it's simply a matter of keeping myself calm and relaxed while playing the more difficult parts.

I have also been learning Op 10 no 2 this past year - although it's WAY harder to me than the c major study. I feel like if I can't finish Op 10 no 1 and have the stamina to play through Op 10 no 2 right after at 3/4 tempo, that I am not playing Op 10 no 1 properly. Is this a good way of thinking? Or should a study as difficult as op 10 no 1 leave me naturally a bit fatigued by the end of it?

[philolog]

I’m glad you found some of my ideas worth investigating: I’d be curious to hear how things work out as you progress.

Relaxation, while commonly extolled as an essential part of piano technique, is always relative:  Obviously it’s not possible to play while completely relaxed. I often think of trying to turn the fingers on and off as I’m playing-----I draw an analogy to a computer, which rapidly oscillates between zero and one as it “computes.” But in actuality, I don’t know that one can (or should) eliminate the various interactions between the fingers (and other parts of the body) as we play. Still, you could make up your own version of such an exercise to see if it helps. Trying to sense tension wherever it appears is another useful activity: don’t necessarily try to eliminate it, but instead, simply observe it and excess tension may dissipate on its own. Anyway, these are just some suggestions. A good teacher should be able to help you with these things.

As to following the first etude with the second, why not concentrate on mastering each one on its own and then worry if you have the stamina to play them in sequence? Unless you’re planning to perform them, why torture yourself with your perceived failings? They’re both very difficult in their individual ways. I know that I can play some of the arpeggios in the first with great speed and lightness, while others (partly because of the shape of my hand) are almost impossible and require greater force to manipulate consistently.

As to number two, it’s very stressful for the forearm muscles, although György Sandor, in his book, On Piano Playing, claims that it’s possible to play it without that sort of suffering. I’ve occasionally thought I could manage it but not often (you might like to look at his book sometime). Anyway, good luck and don’t but too much pressure on yourself: as people on the forum are fond of repeating, music is a life-long process. Enjoy the journey.

[pianoplayer002]

I feel like if I can't finish Op 10 no 1 and have the stamina to play through Op 10 no 2 right after at 3/4 tempo, that I am not playing Op 10 no 1 properly. Is this a good way of thinking? Or should a study as difficult as op 10 no 1 leave me naturally a bit fatigued by the end of it?

No, it should not leave you fatigued. Being able to play 10 no 1, followed by no 2 with no fatigue or trouble, and then the rest of the etudes in opus 10, followed by the entire op 25, should be the standard. Anything less and you are short-changing yourself when it comes to technique. So it is entirely correct that if you can't play op 10 no 2, in tempo (provided you have mastered it of course!), after op 10 no 1 you are not playing op 10 no 1 properly.

Some questions for you:

Is your hand light or are you pressing down on your hand with your arm?
Is your elbow hanging loose like a pendulum made out of a small weight at the end of a string, or does it resist being moved around if you try to disturb it while playing?
Are you holding your hand stretched out trying to reach the wide intervals, or is it supple, soft and rubbery, and striving towards closing together again even at the wide intervals?
Are your shoulders relaxed or are you lifting them and/or pulling your shoulder blades back and down?

Loud dynamics are achieved by the speed of the finger moving, assisted by an arm that's loose and relaxed in every joint (so the finger gets the power it needs). Your finger activity looks ok, so don't stop moving your fingers, you should still press the keys down to the keybed, but the keys should be held down with the power of your active, independent fingers, not through pressure form your arm. You just need to keep the arm and hand absolutely loose while you do so.

[trus]

I am looking for technical advice.

To those who play close attention, it's clear there's ALOT of tension in my body from my mouth to my legs. I need to learn how to fix this and play more relaxed. When I play it a bit slower, I don't have that many issues with getting tired. However, when I play it at tempo my right forearm starts getting really sore around the reintroduction of Part A. I think a lot of this comes from being impatient and activating my fingers to play some of the notes rather than keeping my fingers and hand supple - waiting for my wrist to rotate and THROW my fingers INTO the appropriate notes.

So for those that have technical advice I'm all ears! Any comments negative or positive about the performance are fine too, bring it on! I just don't want this thread to get off-topic.


EDIT - Just realized the youtube video doesn't have sound. One second let me get that fixed!

EDIT 2 - Good to go! Video has sound.
[/quote

Great job! Well done! It could be the angle of the camera, but I think I can sew your rigth shoulder lifting up while tackling the passages,. Sometimes tension could be caused by trying a much faster tempo than you are ready for. One muscle group could be trying to compemsate for the lack of coordination in the other. I would try Practicing super slow, playing well into the key bed (some of the notes in the passages sound tinkly) , without pedal. Slow, finger legato, hear every note & feel the relaxation.  Gently add the speed and slow down as soon as you can feel the tension again. I would certainly not keep playing at this speed or any other speed with tension as you can cause yourself a bad injury.  Good luck!

[stevensk]

It started out really good. But then...
Why did you chose this piece? This piece is just a shallow circus numbre.