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Topic: What is the best grand piano?  (Read 28259 times)

Offline pianorama

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #50 on: February 04, 2006, 12:57:59 AM
Why does it seem that so many people here don't like Steinways? They are overhyped, but they are quite good.

Offline gfiore

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #51 on: February 04, 2006, 02:38:26 AM
 They are fine after you rectify any voicing and regulation problems. They just don't come from the factory prepped to the same standards that most European pianos do. Usually 2-3 days prep on a new Steinway will make it, "all that it can be".
George Fiore  aka "Curry"
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My piano- A 2004 Bosendorfer Model 214 #47,299 214-358

Offline iumonito

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #52 on: February 04, 2006, 02:58:16 AM
...even though spending the same amount of time on a Bechstein, Bluthner or Bosendorfer will usually still result in a superior instrument.  In these better pianos you would spend your time tweeking higher level details, rather than fixing the obvious and inexcusable.
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)

Offline alwaystheangel

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #53 on: February 06, 2006, 01:25:30 AM
PETROF other than a steinway.  A petrof is considered to be the best grand you can get.  I have one only A 5-footer and something but it is incredible.  Mine is the smallest size.  Definately look into the petrof each is hand made and are an absolute work of art.  Ours was 18 000 CND
"True friends stab you in the front."      -Oscar Wilde

Offline gfiore

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #54 on: February 06, 2006, 03:08:04 AM
 While Petrof is considered a good piano, it's hardly the best out there. It is also not entirely hand made. The Petrof factory employs as much precision machinery in the production of their pianos as does essentially every other Tier one piano maker. Many would consider the likes of such makers as Fazioli, Bechstein, Blüthner, Bösendorfer, and Hamburg Steinway, etc as superior to Petrof in every facet.
George Fiore  aka "Curry"
 Piano Technician serving the central New Jersey Area.
My piano- A 2004 Bosendorfer Model 214 #47,299 214-358

Offline pianowelsh

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #55 on: February 14, 2006, 12:41:19 AM
Im not so kean on the new steinways they feel 'cheap' and they are NOT! Yamaha handcrafted are getting very good now and are vastly cheaper than steinway for same size!! Fazioli are to die for I love them but in UK they are way too expensive!! Bosendorfer are good if you can get used to the feel of the touch (the ones ive come across really havent been so well regulated) bujt again they are horrendously expensive.  I agree with Donjaun AGAIN! that Petrof are THE best piano you can get for the money - they produce sound quality equal to the very best and if you get a good technition the action isnt half bad either and they are cheaper than the famous German and Italian models.  Bechstein are OK very good sound although again in the new instruments theyve lost something!! All the 'prestige' names are not as good as they used to be in terms of quallity im afraid theyve all become rather too standard!

Offline g_s_223

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #56 on: February 14, 2006, 01:04:12 AM
Be very clear there are two sorts of Steinways: the ones made in New York and the ones made in Hamburg. It is held by some that the quality control procedures on the NYC ones have slipped in the last few years; others do not agree.

Regardless, every individual piano of whatever type is different and should be judged solely on its particular merits.

Offline andyd

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #57 on: February 14, 2006, 05:32:29 AM
New Hamburg D's nearly always have a beautiful tone in my experience, and one of them in Steinway Hall a couple of weeks ago was probably the second nicest piano I've ever tried.  They usually have four in to try but only had two (and only one model B that had a 'sticky' action).

I now feel pianos depend a lot on the last tech that has worked on them.
I've seen a small Waldstein that had been purposefully voiced to sound like a Bosendorfer and it did.  Who makes Waldstein?
The same tech (Geoffrey Sapsford) had worked on a Stuart 290 for 5 days and that was the 'best' piano I've ever played.

Sub 9' I like the Bluthner and Stuart 7-footers.

I guess this shows my taste, favouring them over Bechstein or Schimmel, both great pianos. 

If 'best' means getting the most fun out of a piano, I'd quite like a Bosendorfer Imperial recording-player-piano.


Andy



Offline rms

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #58 on: March 01, 2006, 05:47:35 PM
No question, the Steinway is a good buy, the quality is high, the stability is high. The Bösendorfer is more rarely to find, may be better, you mnust however yourself notice a difference, can you? the new Bösendorfer may be of lower quality since Bösendorfer is almost  collapsing from producing 2000/ year they now produce not more than 200/year. No question that if you get a good Bösendorfer you can make a good deal. Nobody  ofall answers talked about the sound. The sound how you like your instruments in your hands is the most important thing. A very good violine has the very good sound in your hand thats it. The come quality, you would like y´to have an instrument of stable quality. I heard that Yamaha grand pianos decrease after 15 year in quality. Steinways even old ones almost 100 year still are of high quality if they were not mistreated, and thats really something. I had a german Grotian  Steinweg  grand piano from Braunschweig which was clearly inferior to the Steinway A  grand piano from 1919  which I have now. My piano technician tells me that the construction of the Steinway is superoir. It is so stable that you have hardly to tune it once a year. I am an amateur but love my grand piano and play every day on it. 
Prices in Europe are by far lower than in the States. A brand new Steinway A costs 60000, a used between 1-20000 $.  The largest Steinway D kosts 100000$ brand new, but who needs a so big one: The concert halls yes, but hardly at home. Lokking at prices you can notice that the prices for a used Steinway go up and not down, like housing, not like used cars. So the money is well invested!

Roland in Stockholm Sweden

Offline gfiore

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #59 on: March 01, 2006, 06:36:36 PM
 RMS, you need to check your info before you post.  Bosendorfer has never in their history made more than 550 pianos per year, let alone 2,000. The company is a strong financially as they have ever been. Now owned by the third largest bank in Austria, BAWAG, they continue to prosper with a lot of money going into R&D and have produced 4 new grand piano models over the last decade.
George Fiore  aka "Curry"
 Piano Technician serving the central New Jersey Area.
My piano- A 2004 Bosendorfer Model 214 #47,299 214-358

Offline andyd

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #60 on: March 01, 2006, 07:07:18 PM
"Prices in Europe are by far lower than in the States"

RMS, I'd be interested to see some comparisons from you to justify this statement.

Regarding new Steinway, I believe the following figures are approximately correct
A Hamburg D costs about £90000
A New York D costs about $100000 ($57000 cheaper)

A Hamburg K costs £22000 ($38000)
A New York K costs about $20000 less if I remember right.

Andy

Offline mike_lang

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #61 on: March 03, 2006, 04:54:06 AM
There were too many posts, so I haven't read.  Steinway is of course good.  Also good are Bosendorfer and a relative newbie, Fazioli.  Really depends on your taste in sound and touch.  These are all great pianos.  Oh, and one more - Shigeru Kawai.  Steinway level of Kawai.

Offline henrah

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #62 on: March 03, 2006, 02:11:01 PM
Best grand piano in a home to do what? ;)

My personal vote goes to Fazioli F-228, for me to enjoy making music playing the piano. The F-228 would go closer to the $100k mark than the $20k mark -- too bad my bank account doesn't really have that kind of voting power. :(

Bob, since you've been to the other side, may be I can share this link with you... it's sort of a summary of what I think of the various pianos I tried out while shopping to buy one for myself (strictly personal opinion and very subjective, so don't take it too seriously): LINK HERE.

(And yes, it's for my "home use," with a "regular" living room and 8 ft ceiling in mind. ;) )

Yes, Fazioli's are simply wonderful pianos. I have a 212 myself (more my dad :P) and it's a beaut to play on, and was only around £30-£40,000. Fazioli definately have the upper hand in quality, as each piano is hand made and takes a couple of years. Quite different sound from the automatic batch-processed Steinways.
Currently learning:<br />Liszt- Consolation No.3<br />J.W.Hässler- Sonata No.6 in C, 2nd mvt<br />Glière- No.10 from 12 Esquisses, Op.47<br />Saint-Saens- VII Aquarium<br />Mozart- Fantasie KV397<br /

Offline pianalex

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #63 on: March 03, 2006, 05:11:20 PM
I must agree about Bluthner - I play on a 6' which is hard to fault at least in a domestic setting.  the tone is pure and clean, mellow but not muddied even in the bass.  The touch is subtle enough for the finest nuances; also the sustain is unbeleivable.  Not much experience with  playing steinway, but i wouldn't be tempted to swap.  for what its worth. :)
alex

Offline lextune

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Re: What is the best grand piano?
Reply #64 on: March 08, 2006, 07:19:24 PM
O.K., first a little bit of background, I am a 33 year old pianist, I have been playing for 25 years. After Conservatory I taught for a few years, but it wasn't for me.

I had always been interested in piano technology, watching my own technician/tuner over the years. So I went back to school to become a technician.

The first thing I learned is that most pianists, even great ones, know very little about the actual workings of the piano. The art of tuning, regulating and voicing pianos is completely and utterly separate from the art of being a pianist. A good analogy is driving, you can be a great driver without knowing the first thing about how a car works. It is simply unnecessary. It is the same with the piano, you do not have to know anything about how it works to play it.

But to know whether Piano A is "better" than Piano B, you must understand and examine the workings of the piano.

To argue that one piano is better than another because it "sounds" better, is akin to saying that one car is better than another because of it's color.

The car's color can be easily changed, and a piano's sound can easily be changed.

The true measures of what makes one piano superior to another would take too long to explain (it takes years of training to become a piano technician), but in a very general sense, the more "hands on" (i.e. hand made) the construction, the better the piano. And as a consequence of this hands on construction, no two Steinway B's are exactly alike, or Steinway D's, or Mason & Hamlin BB's, or Fazioli Concert Grands etc. etc.

Whereas other pianos, that are made almost entirely by machine, are virtual carbon copies of one another.

So you see, in the broadest sense, there are two levels. Pianos that are mostly hand made, (superior), and pianos that are mostly machine made, (inferior).

But because of the inherent individuality of the superior pianos you cannot say "a Bösendorfer Concert Grand is better than a Steinway Concert Grand." Some may be, some may not.

In the end the best advice is to always have a qualified technician look at any piano you are thinking of buying. Usually a verbal appraisal will cost you less than $150.00. And it is money very well spent.

;)

Lex


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