\"\"
Piano Forum logo

The Sentence according to Caplin and Schoenberg (Read 1278 times)

Offline wkmt

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
The Sentence according to Caplin and Schoenberg
« on: November 28, 2017, 07:41:09 PM »
My last article is about "The Sentence".

Understanding the different type of themes is essential when analysing Classical Sonata Form.

Let me know what you think about my summary. I based the article on William Caplin's "Classical Forms".


http://www.i-am-a-spammer.com/single-post/2017/11/28/Analysing-Classical-Sonatas---The-Sentence

Offline keypeg

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3567
Re: The Sentence according to Caplin and Schoenberg
«Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 02:53:02 PM »
Let me know what you think about my summary. I based the article on William Caplin's "Classical Forms".
I'm one of the few who responded to some of the previous posts of this nature.  Usually there are no responses when we let you know what we think.  I'll respond differently this time.

All of these articles look like something that a person who has graduated from a course in music studies might write, throwing out some various ideas that he gleaned along the way.  For any student hoping to learn from them, there are way too many references to undefined things, and this is not the way to learn. For fellow teachers, it doesn't work either.  I see someone who is probably an excellent performer, but is there any teacher training in there?  I'm reading about things that I pretty well understand, but they seem to be made complicated.  I could not learn by starting out with these things.

I know that in England there is the ABRSM, which is organized a lot like our RCM. I know that there is a well-organized syllabus, which teaches concepts in stages and builds on them.  If your teachers are teaching theory, then it is probably along that system, with concrete exercises for the students to do, for them to gain understanding in a real way.  If there are any excellent teachers among them, then they will also gradually introduce these concepts in the pieces the students are playing.

If I were a teacher in that school, I would try to keep my students away from these blog entries, so that they won't get confused.

For teaching purposes I find the entry too vague and scattered and broad.

Offline wkmt

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
Re: The Sentence according to Caplin and Schoenberg
«Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 05:23:59 PM »
The only purpose of these articles is to be reminders.

Reminders of What?
Reminders of what we have learnt in during our University years (hopefully).

Why should we try and remember these concepts?
While I'm analysing all Haydn sonatas, I have realised that we need to establish a clear code of communications that can facilitate the understanding of our findings.

The main purpose of my articles is to share with my followers the concepts behind my analysis. and even more, showing them which concepts and which paradigms are helping me in this monumental task of analysis all Haydn Sonatas.

I hope this clarifies the tenure of my articles in that sense.

Offline keypeg

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3567
Re: The Sentence according to Caplin and Schoenberg
«Reply #3 on: December 02, 2017, 12:02:16 AM »
You are posting these in the teaching forum, where teachers are teaching students and discussing the teaching of students.  In that context, I don't feel comfortable with these articles.  If you were discussing them with fellow musicians who studied the same material you have, it would be a different thing.

Meanwhile they are posted first of all at your school, where you wish to attract students, and where you have teachers who are teaching their students.  Were I in the area and looking at these various articles, I would worry that they reflect how things are being taught.  It might well keep me away from the school, unless a teacher there could assure me that he doesn't teach in this manner.  Were I a teacher in the school, I'd not want my students to read these articles, for fear of confusion being created.

You asked for feedback, and I am giving my honest feedback.  Were these articles in a section that had nothing to do with teaching, my feedback might well be different.

Offline keypeg

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3567
Re: The Sentence according to Caplin and Schoenberg
«Reply #4 on: December 02, 2017, 12:09:12 AM »
More specifically:
Reminders of What?
Reminders of what we have learnt in during our University years (hopefully).
The students studying in your school have not learned these things, have not yet had these university years.
Quote
Why should we try and remember these concepts?
While I'm analysing all Haydn sonatas, I have realised that we need to establish a clear code of communications that can facilitate the understanding of our findings. 
I have just finished working with my own teacher on analyzing a Haydn sonata, in fact. Analyzing music by various composers is part of what we do. The goal is always for these to be tools for me, the student, in preparation for eventually working independently, rather than an academic exercise.  The way it is done is transparent, so that as a student I can grow, learn, and truly understand what I am doing.
Quote
The main purpose of my articles is to share with my followers the concepts behind my analysis. and even more, showing them which concepts and which paradigms are helping me in this monumental task of analysis all Haydn Sonatas. 
If your followers are your students, then they themselves first must be aware of the concepts that you are sketching out so briefly.  If they already master these concepts enough to follow, they could probably do the analysis themselves.  If not, then those are big words that might impress them, and make them feel like music analysis is impossibly complex (make them feel small).  Are you analyzing the music FOR your students, rather than teaching them how to do so yourself.

This is a discussion forum where we bounce ideas back and forth.  There should be a mutual learning, exchange of ideas, and also possibly changing one's initial premise as more feedback comes in.  Most people have probably given up in responding to any of these posts, because that kind of exchange rarely happens.