Did you hear Schumann's Traumerei with Schumann's RHYTHM? (not about the TEMPO)

[vladimirdounin]

I did talk politely - not one swear word in my entire post... It may be riddled with a little condescension, but most of your post history is slathered in it; so you don't get to, or even have the right to lecture me about talking politely.

In your opinion your phrase: " if you continue to BLEAT on about this"  is polite?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I am the same pianist, I produced all the interpretations on the same piano and under similar recording conditions and quality. Where do you see "extraneous variables"?

You asked other pianists to do it, for purposes of comparison.  They, their instrument and the recording conditions are the extraneous variables. Surely you must realise that your "which sounds better" test, if you compare you and Lang Lang, to give one example, isn't going to "prove" which interpretation is "better"? I'm actually doing you a favour by pointing this out! Much as many of us don't particularly like LL, the sound he makes is much nicer than what comes from your instrument (even if his faces are grotesque). I emphasise that I agree with you that he's too slow, slow in fact to the point of self-indulgence.

[perfect_pitch]

Honest opponents should not quote only the first part of my answer and cut the most important final sentence

Considering the first part of the phrase:

...all my contacts with ignorant and even stupid people are very important to me.

Is so condescending and puerile, justifying it with this:

On the other hand, smart readers can do to me and make valuable comments, which I gratefully accept.

Doesn't negate the first part of your argument. It's like saying Charles Manson was a really nice guy, quiet neighbour... the only problem was he killed people.

One part of that statement clearly outweighs everything else that was said.

In your opinion your phrase: " if you continue to BLEAT on about this"  is polite?

I'm Scottish... that WAS my polite way of wording it. Would you have preferred if I used the word 'Prattle'? If it helps, substitute that word instead and pretend I have a charming English accent.  

[klavieronin]

Honest opponents  should not quote only the first part of my answer and cut the most important final sentence:
"On the other hand, smart readers can do to me and make valuable comments, which I gratefully accept."

I'm not your opponent. If anything, I'm actually trying to help you. I was merely making the observation that you appear (whether intentional or not) to expect your readers to be "ignorant or even stupid" (your words, not mine). If you say that having contact with ignorant and stupid people is important to you because it helps you understand the mentality of your readers (which is exactly what you said) how else are we supposed to interpret that? The second part of your comment only suggests that you acknowledge that smart readers exist but that you don't expect them to read your book. I cut that part out because it was irrelevant.

[vladimirdounin]

You asked other pianists to do it, for purposes of comparison.  They, their instrument and the recording conditions are the extraneous variables. Surely you must realise that your "which sounds better" test, if you compare you and Lang Lang, to give one example, isn't going to "prove" which interpretation is "better"? I'm actually doing you a favour by pointing this out! Much as many of us don't particularly like LL, the sound he makes is much nicer than what comes from your instrument (even if his faces are grotesque). I emphasise that I agree with you that he's too slow, slow in fact to the point of self-indulgence.

1. I recorded almost all possible variants of the tempo exactly for the opportunity to do such a test just ON TEMPO and on  Synchronous vs Asynchronous (lagged) accompaniment. We do need LL for this test, bunch of my recording is sufficient for conducting it.

2. When I said "which one sounds better", I meant "which way to play is better" but not the quality of the sound itself. One of the best concert grand piano and team of sound engineers should provide the better quality of sound automatically.

[vladimirdounin]

Considering the first part of the phrase:

Is so condescending and puerile, justifying it with this:

Doesn't negate the first part of your argument. It's like saying Charles Manson was a really nice guy, quiet neighbour... the only problem was he killed people.

One part of that statement clearly outweighs everything else that was said.

I'm Scottish... that WAS my polite way of wording it. Would you have preferred if I used the word 'Prattle'? If it helps, substitute that word instead and pretend I have a charming English accent.  

When I played in Edinburgh and in a wonderful diary farm of the biggest (in 1985) and richest farmer of Scotland (unfortunately, I forgot his name but remember that he was a brilliant pianist with a great pianos in his house)  I did not hear such a word from nice and polite people around me.

By the way, Scottish usually speak English quite well and probably can feel stylistics of English much better than I do (I learned seriously only German). Probably, you are right regarding my stylistic mistake in the mentioned paragraph.

However, anyone of any nation prefers to swear in Russian, I he had a chance to learn Russian.  And I'm Russian.....

[vladimirdounin]

I'm not your opponent. If anything, I'm actually trying to help you. I was merely making the observation that you appear (whether intentional or not) to expect your readers to be "ignorant or even stupid" (your words, not mine). If you say that having contact with ignorant and stupid people is important to you because it helps you understand the mentality of your readers (which is exactly what you said) how else are we supposed to interpret that? The second part of your comment only suggests that you acknowledge that smart readers exist but that you don't expect them to read your book. I cut that part out because it was irrelevant.

Is your main profession a LAWYER, or it is just your hobby?

[klavieronin]

Is your main profession a LAWYER, or it is just your hobby?

My father was a lawyer so I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you very much.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

1. I recorded almost all possible variants of the tempo exactly for the opportunity to do such a test just ON TEMPO and on  Synchronous vs Asynchronous (lagged) accompaniment. We do need LL for this test, bunch of my recording is sufficient for conducting it.

2. When I said "which one sounds better", I meant "which way to play is better" but not the quality of the sound itself. One of the best concert grand piano and team of sound engineers should provide the better quality of sound automatically.

Re 1: Fair enough that you did so many variants. Why though do you insist on "lagged" asynchronous accompaniment? I have quoted many sources, and this is not, either in my listening, in any teaching seminar i have attended, nor in my performance or recording experience, a normal way of playing. If you can find me examples of other musicians playing left AFTER right, I would be interested to hear them. Left BEFORE right, in my experience, is a very definite means of interpretation (I often use it myself) and thus I am curious as to why you seem to reject it.

2. I understand your point. The problem is that if a listener hears an interpretation A, which has better sound than interpretation B, they may conclude A is a better interpretation because the better sound biases their listening experience.

[chrisbutch]

By the way, Scottish usually speak English quite well...

 When you wrote that you were not aware, I suspect, that it's a statement with implications which are, let's say, somewhat provocative...  

[perfect_pitch]

When I played in Edinburgh and in a wonderful diary farm of the biggest (in 1985) and richest farmer of Scotland (unfortunately, I forgot his name but remember that he was a brilliant pianist with a great pianos in his house)  I did not hear such a word from nice and polite people around me.

You're basing your opinion of the Scottish based on an interaction you had with one upper-class, very wealthy Scotsman???

Yeah... because every Scotsmans rich and owns a farm. That's like spending a day with the Queen, and presuming that because you didn't hear her fart - that none of the English do.

And no offense, but if you think 'bleat' and 'prattle' are impolite... I can assure you I know many other words far worse.

[beethovenfan01]

Everything played ON beat sounds more clear, more strong for the audience. So, if we want to bring out some voice, to attract attention to some particular notes - we have to play them ON beat. All the rest becomes a kind of background.

Playing top not ON beat with a delay of accompaniment is typical for Chopin's and Liszt's music.
Why Schumann should be played in an opposite way?

We have a wonderful opportunity to play for each other and listen to. Why we have to waste time on verbal argumentation instead of recording and listening? Today it is so easy and simple.

Please, record your ideas in musical form and let me and all other forum's members to listen. If it sounds good - you are right.

The problem is all of this is based on opinion.

I would absolutely play this for you, except for two things: you have shown yourself to be biased AGAINST everyone else's reasoning and opinions. What is supposed to make me think that you would be unbiased in listening to my own playing? I don't trust you to listen to it and NOT let loose a string of harsh criticisms about how much you hate it because it isn't exactly how you want it. Another time, I would be more open, but right now I'm preparing for a major audition and I can't afford to put my self-confidence on the chopping block right now, thank you very much.

Also, my recording quality is horrible. Unless you have good ideas about how to improve that (I don't know anything about this, or even where to find out about it!), you're automatically going to be biased against me anyway.

Thanks! Please respond both thoughtfully and politely!

[vladimirdounin]

The problem is all of this is based on opinion.

I would absolutely play this for you, except for two things: you have shown yourself to be biased AGAINST everyone else's reasoning and opinions. What is supposed to make me think that you would be unbiased in listening to my own playing? I don't trust you to listen to it and NOT let loose a string of harsh criticisms about how much you hate it because it isn't exactly how you want it. Another time, I would be more open, but right now I'm preparing for a major audition and I can't afford to put my self-confidence on the chopping block right now, thank you very much.

Also, my recording quality is horrible. Unless you have good ideas about how to improve that (I don't know anything about this, or even where to find out about it!), you're automatically going to be biased against me anyway.

Thanks! Please respond both thoughtfully and politely!

Sorry, I am very busy  with very remote from Music things  and can not answer thoughtfully anyone.
However, I do my best to be polite even with impolite people (it is not about you).

I want only to tell you that digital piano with a beautiful sound (some of Digitals are not so disgusting) can work well with direct connection to your PS without any MIDI etc.

With digital piano you do not need to worry about tuning, amplifying,  good microphone and all the rest necessary for a recording on a real acoustic piano.

Good luck!

[beethovenfan01]

Sorry, I am very busy  with very remote from Music things  and can not answer thoughtfully anyone.
However, I do my best to be polite even with impolite people (it is not about you).

I want only to tell you that digital piano with a beautiful sound (some of Digitals are not so disgusting) can work well with direct connection to your PS without any MIDI etc.

With digital piano you do not need to worry about tuning, amplifying,  good microphone and all the rest necessary for a recording on a real acoustic piano.

Good luck!

I will try. I dislike playing digital keyboards unless their is no other alternative, and I think I may be able to make a short recording work at some point soon ...

I'm sorry if I came off as a little inflammatory in earlier posts. "A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." --Proverbs 15:1

[louispodesta]

That recording of the Kinderszenen by Fanny Davies is truly wonderful. Here's the whole cycle:

Thank you.  And, as I have said before, that is why I have promoted the concept of "Original Performance Practice."

Accordingly, when there are "Analog" recordings of the students of Clara Schumann (three separate ones), then there is no room for suggestion or postulation.  These recordings are by Fanny Davies, Adelina de Lara, and Carl Friedberg, all of whom were her students.

Most importantly, Fanny Davies was her teaching assistant for 20 years.  That meant you could not matriculate under Clara Schumann until you made it past her.  And, that most certainly meant the proper playing of the Kinderszenen!