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Topic: Difficult stretches in Chopin's Waltz in E minor, Op. Posthumouus  (Read 3465 times)

Offline richardb

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I really like this piece, so I decided to learn it, starting with the coda.  I'm having trouble with the left hand chords in these two measures

I know you're supposed to rotate your wrist, and have a flexible wrist, but I just can't seem to get it, even at my slow tempo.  I'm thinking of just moving that high E down an octave and playing B E G B instead of B G B E, and similarly play B D# F# A in the next measure. I should add that I'm not a professional or a piano student and I'll never play in a Chopin competition or anything like that. I play as a hobby, for my own enjoyment (and if others enjoy it, that's fine too.) To me this change doesn't sound bad and it's not that different from the written score. What do you think? Should I work hard and try to play it as written, or make it easy on myself with this change?  Am I being a complete philistine for suggesting this?
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Offline outin

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Of course you can change it, but it would be better to learn to roll chords if you are into romantic music. Depending on your hand shape it can be difficult at worst to do it fluently, but start slowly and experiement. Try to feel and avoid tension. Let go of the low notes fast enough and trust the pedal to do it's job. Remember that not all notes are as important and concentrate on those that are.

Offline Bob

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Hey, I think I know that piece.

I'd still do it as written.  Break it down into pieces.  Practice in more keys or chords so you get more repetition.

Land the weight on 2 in the left.  After enough practice it's all one motion, 'landing' on 2.

The roll isn't stuck in time so there's a little wiggle room there.  As long as it's a rip and everything hits on one. 

For practice, you could a block chord for the first part.  It's an octave or a seventh there.  Then crossing over the thumb with 2.  You can make exercises crossing 2 over the thumb (or 3, or 4).  Even something simple, all white key.... thumb on the third of a chord, cross 2 up and down on the root and fifth of the chord. 

This might be one of those spots that is a technique you don't down yet, so it's more difficult now.  Later it become easy.

I'd probably go with those fingerings.  I think it's possibly to just roll from 5 up to 1 though too. 

Coordinating with the RH, there is some help with the accents.  The dim doesn't help.

It's all light though.  Motions.  Not heavy fingerwork.  The tempo's clippy, in one.  You do have some wiggle room with the tempo, but it will be obvious if it's pushing you.

For theory, just i V i, if that helps.

Pedalling looks like a challenge too.  Catch the bass note on that roll?  And it's also staccato while held by the pedal?


I'd go for it.  Drill the heck out the LH until it gets the motion down.  It is still an awkward roll since it's a roll with a cross over like that.  Shtuff will come up in future music though that's like that.

If you still wanted to, you could leave out the B's but it's not the same.  Chords still function.  i viio i.   Fifth isn't needed on i.  It is losing the root on V7 though.


There's also the historical angle.  Was this a piece Chopin wrote when he was playing on a piano with lighter action?  If you're playing on a piano with heavy action, it's not quite the same.  Not impossible though either.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline richardb

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Thanks much, Outin and Bob for your comments.  I'm going to do it as written. Funny thing, the score I'm using to play from is not the one in the image of my post, and I was trying to roll from 5 up to 1. The chord in the previous measure was a tenth (from C up to E), which I could manage that way, but not this one (from B up to E).  I gotta pay more attention, to fingering.  With this fingering, along with your suggestions, I'm sure I can get it now.

Thanks again!

Richard

Offline andrewuk

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By the way, the Henle Urtext edition has  BBGF#E rather than BAGF#E in first bar of your extract, and most of the recordings I can find seem to reflect this, e.g. Rubenstein here (the bar in question is at 2:52). He takes at a slow enough tempo to make it easier to hear the notes than is the case with some...

Henle also puts the accent in the second bar on the B on beat 2, not the D#.

Offline richardb

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By the way, the Henle Urtext edition has  BBGF#E rather than BAGF#E in first bar of your extract, and most of the recordings I can find seem to reflect this, e.g. Rubenstein here (the bar in question is at 2:52). He takes at a slow enough tempo to make it easier to hear the notes than is the case with some...

Henle also puts the accent in the second bar on the B on beat 2, not the D#.

Thanks andrewuk for pointing that out. After thinking about it some, I've decided I'll play it the Henle and Rubenstein way.
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