Advice and opinions on piano playing

[dolce cantabile]

Hi, I found this web two days ago and after going through a lot of infomative posts, I was wondering if you guys, especially Bernhard could give me some advices.

I played piano in my youth and I have obtained ABRSM grade 5. Shortly after that, I stopped playing for about 8 years before taking up again last year. I got myself a teacher and also a new yamaha piano.

I thought I could just "continue" from Grade 5 and do Bach, Chopin etc but I encounter difficulties. I am currently using 2 books from my old collection: "Hours with the Master Vol.1 Dorothy Bradley" and "Tuneful Graded Studies Vol.3". What grades do you think those books are?
Recently, I was suprise to know that another grade 2 pupil actually uses "Hours with the Master Vol.1" and I'm kinda sad as although these pieces aren't difficult, I can't really play them note-perfect and with good tone, and definitely not up to speed!! It's seems that I'm worst than Grade 2! What's wrong with me? 

Should I discard those books? If yes, what other kinds of books should I get? 

And, how should I improve my technique given the fact that I should have master them but I "didn't"? 

Also, is it advisable to just go for more challenging pieces like Bach, Chopin etc, hoping those pieces can improve my techniques? (considering the fact that I haven't really tried out those pieces dispite the Grade 5 status, and also the fact that most members here seem to be able to do difficult pieces even though they are just low-intermediate levels)

Lastly, I could only practice an hour a day (or sometimes none), does this play a big part for me not playing well too?

I hope I'm not asking too much questions, and thanks in advance!

p.s : I have read Chang's book and Bernhard's 7x20 method, I'll try them out soon!

[xvimbi]

My opinion is that one should not get hung up on grades. I have no idea what grades are good for, other than they might put some more pressure on someone to practice, or result in certificates that one can hang on the walls. Perhaps, they are required to join a conservatory, but overall, I think they are useless.

If you like playing the piano, go play the pieces that you like and learn as much as you can. Don't compare yourself with others who may or may not come over as child prodigies. Compare your progress only to your own ambitions.

In other words: Enjoy making music. Have your teacher guide you through the process. S/he will know what you need to be working on.

[bernhard]

Xvimbi said it very well and I could not agree more.

Just a few more thoughts.

1.   Perhaps it is after all a good thing that you have to go back to scratch rather then start where you left off. Perhaps your technique then was full of bad habits, and in these eight years you neglected the piano, most of these bad habits lost their grip. Children with excellent tuition ingrain good habits at an early age. But children who take to their lessons half-heartedly, never practise or listen to their teachers playing any way they feel like, can get to grade 8 full of misguided approaches. If you were one of these children, then as an adult you will be able to appreciate and focus on these issues –which a child usually does not. So consider it a second opportunity to do things right!

2.   There is a huge repertory of wonderful pieces at very low grades (I often play Alan Hovhaness’s sleeping cat for friends – it is a grade 1 piece). Fur Alina by Arvo part is another grade 1 piece (technically – musically is one of the hardest pieces I ever played) that is amazingly satisfying to play. Adults usually have much more musicality and musical understanding then children, so simply select pieces that are within your technical ability at the moment, but which are intensely satisfying from a musical point of view. Have a look at these threads for some ideas:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2147.msg18098.html#msg18098
(Easiest piano piece ever written)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2314.msg19869.html#msg19869
(Schumann’s Album for the young)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2340.msg20224.html#msg20224
(Building your piano foundations – suggestions for a progressive repertory)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2398.msg20989.html#msg20989
(suggestions for Scarlatti sonatas and Prokofiev pieces of beginner/intermediate level).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2562.msg22127.html#msg22127
(Suggestions for repertory for someone who has been playing for a year)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2851.msg24984.html#msg24984
(Introduction to romantic pieces)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4140.msg38111.html#msg38111
(True repertory for total beginners)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4238.msg39061.html#msg39061
(easy show off pieces)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4416.msg41105.html#msg41105
(nice slow romantic piece for beginner)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5063.msg49589.html#msg49589
(Albums for the young)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2357.msg56150.html#msg56150
(Joe Hisaishi sheet music)


What you want to avoid are the soul-destroying beginner pieces you find in most methods. There is absolutely no need to go through them. There is enough superlative piano repertory out there.

I thought I could just "continue" from Grade 5 and do Bach, Chopin etc but I encounter difficulties. I am currently using 2 books from my old collection: "Hours with the Master Vol.1 Dorothy Bradley" and "Tuneful Graded Studies Vol.3". What grades do you think those books are?

Dorothy Bradley volume 1 covers grades 1 – 2.

Tuneful Graded studies volume 3 covers grades 3 – 4.

Should I discard those books? If yes, what other kinds of books should I get?

Yes. Discard those books. Instead, pick pieces you like. If these books happen to have pieces you like, then by all means study and play them. But otherwise why should you? (you see, I do not subscribe to the “eat your broccoli, it’s good for you” school of piano learning).

And, how should I improve my technique given the fact that I should have master them but I "didn't"? 

There are two extreme schools of thought in this matter as you will soon discover if you read through related threads in the forum: Get your technique by doing technical exercises, and get your technique by working in a certain way in your pieces. (and of course many shades of grey in between these two extremes)

I personally side with the second school of thought, and I do not touch or give my students any technical exercise of any kind, unless I like it as a piece of music and want to play it as such. For instance, at a very basic level Czerny op. 139 no. 98  and Schumann’s Little Study Op. 68 no. 14 are two examples of technical studies I gladly play. On the other extreme of difficulty are the Chopin Studies – which are studies only in name. This does not mean that you will get technique from a piece by just playing it. You need to do specific work on the piece for that purpose. Have a look here for a bit more information on these subjects as well as different opinions from my own:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5352.msg50998.html#msg50998
(Exercises x repertory – collection of links to Bernhard’s opinion – why technique cannot be isolated from music)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5375.msg51272.html#msg51272
(Defending technical exercises – two different philosophies regarding exercises – chopstick analogy)

Also, is it advisable to just go for more challenging pieces like Bach, Chopin etc, hoping those pieces can improve my techniques? (considering the fact that I haven't really tried out those pieces dispite the Grade 5 status, and also the fact that most members here seem to be able to do difficult pieces even though they are just low-intermediate levels)

If you approach these pieces in the correct way, even a complete beginner may be able to tackle them. However it may take a longer time than if you started with a previous piece of less difficulty. When a student approaches me saying s/he wants to learn a piece, I see it as my job to create a path that will lead him/her to play that piece in the most efficient/least amount of time. This may involve breaking down the piece in certain ways, or it may involve learning preparatory pieces (which are still worthwhile as repertory). If you are curious about how I went about this on two specific examples, see here (there are more examples scattered through the forum but these two are particularly detailed):

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2714.msg23310.html#msg23310
(how to teach Bach’s invention no. 1)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2893.msg25500.html#msg25500
(how to teach Schubert’s Impromptu op. 142 no. 2 -  Burgmuller studies as preparation – Lots of practice tricks – the pragmatical x logical approach)

Lastly, I could only practice an hour a day (or sometimes none), does this play a big part for me not playing well too?

You can progress at amazing rates even if you practise 10 minutes a day. It is not the amount of time, but what you do with it. You must plan your work and then work your plan. What is essential is consistency. You must practise everyday. You must make sure that in every practice session (even if it is only ten minutes) you have a clear and specific aim and that you achieved it. Then it is just a matter of making a plan where all small aims add up to something after a period of time. The amount of time you dedicate to practice then is reflected not on how good you get, but on how much repertory you can collect. If you practise ten minutes a day, at the end of a month you may have mastered, say, three pieces. While if you have practised one hour a day, you would have learned 18 pieces. The image of a pianist with bloody fingers after ten hours daily practice is an unnecessary one. These people just have obsessive-compulsive behaviour often associated with bad practice strategies. You can see them learning and perfecting something in 15 minutes, and then proceed to destroy it in the next two hours.

Look here for a summary of links discussing practice strategies (amongst other stuff):

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5767.msg56133.html#msg56133


I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[dolce cantabile]

Bernhard and Xvimbi, thanks very much for your advice... 
I have a clearer picture of what I should do now.  And those links provided by Bernhard are definitely a good read!   
I know I'm still too elementary to post any comments about piano playing as yet but I'll stick around and hopefully able to give useful posts as time goes by!
Thanks once again! 

[bernhard]

You are welcome