How did you teach your most talented student?

[ranjit]

From experience, one can never come to a consensus on what constitutes talent, so please don't go too deep into the semantics unless absolutely necessary.

So, how did you teach your most talented student? How did their learning path diverge from the norm? Was there anything in particular that they did differently which you subsequently incorporated in your teaching? Did they have unusual abilities which resulted in rapid progress (perfect pitch, etc.), and do you think other students could emulate what they did in order to achieve a similar result?

[keypeg]

Can you tell us where you're coming from with this question?  For example, checking your other posts (and it seems I responded to you a couple of times in the past), you are not writing this as a teacher who wants to know how to teach a talented student that you just got.  You are a student yourself.  So what purpose, reason, or angle?

[ranjit]

I have been trying to teach myself piano due to the unavailability of teachers where I live.

I have usually been the "talented" student in school, and went on to a prestigious college. And I realized that teaching often fundamentally differed (was more analytical, relied less on examples and more on concepts, etc.) At some point, I grew so frustrated with teaching that I quit attending classes to teach myself the material and to learn using textbooks. And I see the same scenario play out when I try to find someone who can teach me piano. I have always rushed ahead through material -- reading textbooks before the semester starts, taking on difficult problems and challenges well beyond what was expected of me -- and I don't expect piano to be any different.

I can already play most relatively simple material (at the level of the easier Chopin waltzes and nocturnes, Schubert impromptus, etc.) and wanted to try and learn more difficult material: the Fantaisie Impromptu, Liebestraume, Chopin Etudes, etc.) which are "just above" grade 8 but not quite virtuosic (to be fair, the Etudes are viruosic...).

Most of the advice I find on learning piano is very generic (stick to a practice regimen, practice regularly, etc). It has been my experience that more efficient methods to learn a subject are usually those which the "talented" students apply. By getting a better idea of what those methods are, I thought I could improve my own learning experience. It would help me to get a good teacher. It would give me some perspective of whether my learning style is "correct", or if I'm just full of hot air.

I did not mention all of this initially as I hoped to not bias the answers by revealing my background. People are often not aware of what makes something work (tacit knowledge), so I hoped to try and figure out common patterns which may work, based on anecdote.

You said at some point that our questions are initially like stabs in the dark. If this question is silly, well, consider it a stab in the dark...

[0range]

Your post is full of assumptions I find odd, AND you wish us to talk without defining terms? Okay... 

You may find some of the posts of a user Bernhard interesting, as he and others have discussed this topic ad nauseum, here is an example - https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.msg147163#msg147163.

Then again you may not, given neither of us have any idea what "interesting" means to the other at this point.

[ranjit]

Your post is full of assumptions I find odd, AND you wish us to talk without defining terms? Okay... 

You may find some of the posts of a user Bernhard interesting, as he and others have discussed this topic ad nauseum, here is an example - https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.msg147163#msg147163.

Then again you may not, given neither of us have any idea what "interesting" means to the other at this point.

I barely made any assumptions in my original post... What assumptions are you talking about?
I have read many of bernhard's posts. I do indeed find them interesting.

But again, I was not asking for advice on how to learn piano. 'keypeg' asked me what purpose I had to ask this question as a student rather than as a teacher, and my post was a response to that.

I never said I didn't want you to define terms; feel free to do so. It's just that I have seen the point of talent being debated in several posts on Pianostreet -- and it tends to devolve into a nature vs nurture debate a lot of the time. Perhaps I should have left out the paragraph, given that there isn't that much activity on the forum nowadays anyway. My second post is kind of irrelevant -- I'm not really seeking advice on how to learn piano.

Anyway, I just meant to ask, how has the learning progression of highly capable/talented students been, in your experience?

I can't find this question with a search. Could you (or someone else on the forum) please link the post, if this has been asked already?

[ranjit]

Your post is full of assumptions I find odd, AND you wish us to talk without defining terms? Okay... 

You may find some of the posts of a user Bernhard interesting, as he and others have discussed this topic ad nauseum, here is an example - https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.msg147163#msg147163.

Then again you may not, given neither of us have any idea what "interesting" means to the other at this point.

btw I've been going through the post you sent (I'm buried a hundred comments deep now lol  ). It is really nice!

[keypeg]

Ranjit, I answered in a PM.

[nastassja]

I personally find Russian piano methods more interesting for my gifted students, and I add some etudes or technical exercises on the side too (usually the more musical the better). My most gifted student usually learned in a week what most students would learn over the course of three months. It was like he almost instantaneously memorized the pieces as he went through them.

However, no matter how talented or how fast you have learned other subjects, in the beginning, you will lack the technical skills that a 4 to 8 year old pianist has. So even if you are a fast learner, you might struggle if you only try following a curriculum designed for gifted learners; going through the basics as well as working on some more difficult repertoire would be preferable, I think. Doing too many things too fast without appropriate former training or guidance often leads to bad technique.

[keypeg]

Nastassja, don't your gifted students following the Russian system also start with basic technique when they start at a young age?  Isn't that part of the Russian system, in fact?

[nastassja]

Yes, Keypeg, most of the Russian piano methods I have read do include technical exercises (but not all, I guess that most teachers should be able to find etudes and exercises tailored to their students' needs). I am not Russian though, I just have a personal preference for Russian piano methods when it comes to teaching children who usually learn faster.

However, I am not sure how useful these methods would be in the original poster's specific context. Curricula designed for the gifted usually give good results because of early training (with proper guidance, environment and high expectations) that allows very young students to develop a solid technique. I think that it is unlikely that an adult could achieve similar results using such methods in his 20s, especially on his own.

[keypeg]

Nastassja - So when you answered the OP on what you do with gifted students, these would not be absolute beginners who are somehow identified as gifted - but students who have already been given the technical basics?

[mousekowski]

It is difficult to know exactly what you need to move forward with your piano playing, especially if you haven’t got a regular teacher.

I’m not a music teacher but I believe enthusiasm alone distinguishes talented students. Having that genuine inner determination is priceless. This usually includes an insatiable appetite for practicing and often the student will also have developed a special area of musical interest, e.g. a favourite composer.

There’s all sorts of things that the teacher can do to nurture that enthusiasm, but it has got to be there in the first place. If you’re thinking, ‘I’m very talented but I need to find a teacher who can make me more enthusiastic about practicing the piano’, then that is not what I’m talking about.

I personally use performance opportunities, chamber music rehearsals and one-to-one lessons to motivate myself to practice, but then again, I don’t claim to be a talented student!