SORABJI FREE ZONE

[thalbergmad]

Please feel free to post any non KSS matters in this thread.

[lostinidlewonder]

I wondered what KSS and KISS looked like.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

A Pixis Zone?

[ahinton]

Can anyone post about Brexit here, even though there's already a thread devoted thereto? If so, you might risk inviting contributions about all manner of subjects already covered elsewhere on the forum. Don't worry - I wasn't actually planning to do so.

That said, do bear in mind that some might misinterpret what I presume to be your intentions here and post about Sorabji on the assumption that this thread invites members to do so for free; you might therefore like to consider retitling the thread to obviate that possible risk...

Best,

Alistair

[lostinidlewonder]

aww sorry thal Sorabjis no 1 fan boy has infiltrated! lol

[perfect_pitch]

That said, do bear in mind that some might misinterpret what I presume to be your intentions here and post about Sorabji on the assumption that this thread invites members to do so for free; you might therefore like to consider retitling the thread to obviate that possible risk...

We could call it the 'Sorabji can bugger the hell off' thread... would that be better???

 

[ahinton]

We could call it the 'Sorabji can bugger the hell off' thread... would that be better???

a) I'd be the wrong person to ask
b) I had assumed that threads were initiated by individual members with their titles accordingly chosen by such members, so I'd question the rôle of the first person plural
c) Although it's only a personal opinion, my answer to your question would have to be that it wouldn't be better, given that he won't do anything of the kind because so many CDs of his work are due out this year
d) I'm uncertain whether Nils would condone one of the words in your suggested title.

Since you ask...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

Okay... let's see...

a) You're right
b) It would be funny to see the thread renamed as such though... I wonder where Thalbergmad is...
c) Refer to the graph:



We get it, you're old.



d) My point stands in that the title is used to 'exclude the discussion' of Sorabji, and is not a thread in which the likes of him shall be talked about any further than the mere mention of his name.

Just to clarify - it is not a discussion where you can freely talk about 'he who shall not be named', aka, the composer formerly known as 'Sorabji'.

[ahinton]

b) It would be funny to see the thread renamed as such though... I wonder where Thalbergmad is...

Funny to whom? You? The entire membership?...

Thalbergmad is almost certainly where he usually is; why do you ask?

We get it, you're old.

Who are "we"? What relevance might my age, whatever it might be, have to the decisions of record companies in which I have no involvement to continue to manfacture CDs? I assume that those that do so reckon on there being an international market from them sufficient to warrant their allocation of the requisite manufacturing, distribution and administrative costs.

d) My point stands in that the title is used to 'exclude the discussion' of Sorabji, and is not a thread in which the likes of him shall be talked about any further than the mere mention of his name.

Just to clarify - it is not a discussion where you can freely talk about 'he who shall not be named', aka, the composer formerly known as 'Sorabji'.

I have no problem with most of that in principle; indeed, the very mention of his name in the thread title does suggest that the mention of it in some posts here might reasonably be anticipated.

However, there is an inherent contradiction between your references to 'the mere mention of his name' and 'he who shall not be named'; moroever your reference to 'the composer formerly known as 'Sorabji'' is false to the extent that he is still known thus which, as Sorabji was his surname, is hardly surprising.

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Ah, just logged into Sorabjistreet. Nothing much has changed!

Haha at finding this on Roberge's site:

"The Piano Street website features a “Piano Board” whose “Repertoire” section very often contains discussion threads dealing with Sorabji. Threads often tend to resort to flame mail."

[ahinton]

Ah, just logged into Sorabjistreet. Nothing much has changed!

Haha at finding this on Roberge's site:

"The Piano Street website features a “Piano Board” whose “Repertoire” section very often contains discussion threads dealing with Sorabji. Threads often tend to resort to flame mail."

Well, one cannot really blame him! He is an excellent scholar, incidentally and has contributed much to the cause of both Busoni and Sorabji over the years.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

That Corfe Castle Cretin has infested my thread.

[ahinton]

That Corfe Castle Cretin has infested my thread.

It's a free zone, by your own hand, Thal...

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Sorabji-unrelated.

I see no reason not to post this 

https://www.centrothalberg.it/Discography.html

[ahinton]

Sorabji-unrelated.

I see no reason not to post this 

https://www.centrothalberg.it/Discography.html

Nor do I.

Best,

Alistair

[dogperson]

Well, one cannot really blame him! He is an excellent scholar, incidentally and has contributed much to the cause of both Busoni and Sorabji over the years.

Best,

Alistair

Has anyone really thought about how this might be affecting new membership in this forum?  If a potential new member  considers paying for a membership and just looked at the topics/posts here, would be/she pay?  Just a thought with no reply wanted.

[thalbergmad]

Well, before I reactivated myself, potential members would have had hardly anything to read at all, so I doubt in the larger scheme of things that these kind of threads are making any difference.

[j_tour]

Has anyone really thought about how this might be affecting new membership in this forum?  If a potential new member  considers paying for a membership and just looked at the topics/posts here, would be/she pay?  Just a thought with no reply wanted.

You're right! 

I'm sure most people paying for access to a piano board immediately go to the "Non-Piano" section of the board and dive right into the "Anything But Piano" subforum.

I've been Sorabji free my whole life. 

[ahinton]

I've been Sorabji free my whole life.

But fortunately your life is not yet over, so one never knows what the future might hold...

Best,

Alistair

[dogperson]

You're right! 

I'm sure most people paying for access to a piano board immediately go to the "Non-Piano" section of the board and dive right into the "Anything But Piano" subforum.

I've been Sorabji free my whole life.

I would think a potential member would start with ‘recent posts’ and dive right in

[j_tour]

I would think a potential member would start with ‘recent posts’ and dive right in

Maybe.

What's the opposite?

Like a double-barrel full of Rachmaninoff?  And people quoting VHrowitz and back and forth?

I'd think a prospective client would say to himself or herself, "Well, there's that some forum where that some of them self-segregate their moronic ramblings in the appropriate places, but there's also some of whatnot which what all had about things about some piano."

[perfect_pitch]

I've been Sorabji free my whole life.

But fortunately your life is not yet over, so one never knows what the future might hold...

I'm pretty sure J_Tour has also been Gonorrhoea-free as well so far - doubt he's going to try it and pretty sure he'll die without ever listening to that garbage.

[ahinton]

I'm pretty sure J_Tour has also been Gonorrhoea-free as well so far

I certainly hope so and that he remains so.

doubt he's going to try it and pretty sure he'll die without ever listening to that garbage.

I didn't know that one could listen to gonorrhœa...

Best,

Alistair

[j_tour]

I'm pretty sure J_Tour has also been Gonorrhoea-free as well so far - doubt he's going to try it and pretty sure he'll die without ever listening to that garbage.

Convicted on both counts.  Not having had gonorrhea yet is one of my greatest regrets.  It is indeed the fancy of a young man.

I don't listen to very much music, but I can probably just sight read the music of the golem, right?  How hard can it be?  It's exactly the same as Messiaen's, Krenek's, and Ligeti's works for solo piano, is what I heard, just put in a more condensed, concise form.

[perfect_pitch]

I didn't know that one could listen to gonorrhœa...

Swing and a miss; not even close. You totally misunderstood my comment...

I wasn't referring to the Gonorrhoea.

[ahinton]

Swing and a miss; not even close. You totally misunderstood my comment...

I wasn't referring to the Gonorrhoea.

The only thing missed here is sarcasm, methinks...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

Oh dear... I wasn't being sarcastic. Let me see if I can put it another way for you Alistair:







Oh WAIT... Were YOU being sarcastic when you said:

I didn't know that one could listen to gonorrhœa...

Silly me... You're absolutely right. One can't 'listen' to Gonnorrhoea - the closest thing we have to getting the same experience (the swelling, the horrific itching, the urge to kill ones self) is listening to Sorabji.

[ahinton]

Oh dear... I wasn't being sarcastic. Let me see if I can put it another way for you Alistair:

No, you weren't - and no one suggested that you were. See below...

Oh WAIT... Were YOU being sarcastic when you said:

Silly me... You're absolutely right. One can't 'listen' to Gonnorrhoea

Don't worry; you got there in the end.

the closest thing we have to getting the same experience (the swelling, the horrific itching, the urge to kill ones self) is listening to Sorabji.

How curious, then, that no one who has acquired this recording is responding to it other than in ways entirely opposite to those that you are attempting to put forward here! I cannot imagine that this is purely because no one who's listened to this recording (or any of the public performances of the piece) has ever experienced gonorrhœa (much as I hope that none of them has).

Have you listened to it all yourself and, if so, did doing so enable you to inform the membership (or at least any of it that could care less) whether and how it resembled the experience of such a condition (assuming that your personal encounter with gonorrhœa has qualified you to pronounce on it thus)?...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

Every time I see Alistair type, I just see:

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Best,

Alistair

No offense, but it someone can't even stand to listen to 5 minutes of that crap, how is anyone going to find beauty in it after spending hours and hours listening to the same puerile garbage.

I don't need to have had Gonnorrhoea to know the symptoms. I've never had the flu before, but I know it can knock you on your arse and I know what it entails. 

Your idiotic attempts to continually advertise the music of Sorabji is just getting sad. It's pretty much all you do now and it's making you look pathetic.

[gep]

Every time I see Alistair type, I just see:

No offense, but it someone can't even stand to listen to 5 minutes of that crap, how is anyone going to find beauty in it after spending hours and hours listening to the same puerile garbage.

I don't need to have had Gonnorrhoea to know the symptoms. I've never had the flu before, but I know it can knock you on your arse and I know what it entails. 

Your idiotic attempts to continually advertise the music of Sorabji is just getting sad. It's pretty much all you do now and it's making you look pathetic.

Likewise I don't need to be an imbecile to know the symptoms thereof, and wowee you are a textbook case.
But blap on as much as you desire, the sales of Seqentia Cyclica are real and rising, and the positive responses to it keep coming in.

If someone can't stand listening to Sorabji for five minutes, no problem; simply don't listen to it. But it seems you are incapable of getting the fact through that immensely thick skull of yours that there are people, many people, who not only can listen to Sorabji's music, and not just 5 minutes thereof, but actually enjoy doing so. In fact, for some reason you and a few others appear to think that since you cannot stand Sorabji's music, it should be forbidden for anybody and everybody else to state he or she does like this music. You are too stubborn, stupid and arrogant to accept that not everybody, other than a few microscopically minded, share your exceedingly narrow-minded frame of whatever you abuse as your mind, and neither need they. You speak of puerile garbage, yet are a massive and never-ending fountain thereof.

How anybody is going to find beauty in Sorabji after spending hours of listening to it? I find  it the same way I find beauty in much other music, by indeed spending hours listening to it. Open-minded. Not with the infantilistic feeblemindedness of such like you who have ever only been and will remain too lazy to let their ears if not minds grow out of their diapers and thus never learned to listen or, for that matter, think without said ears and minds only full of their own sh*t, and who only ever proceed regurgitating the aforementioned sh*t as if it means anything whatsoever.

[ahinton]

Every time I see Alistair type

You never see me type. I have never met you.

I don't need to have had Gonnorrhoea to know the symptoms.

You evidently don't need to have had it in order to spell it correctly either.

Your idiotic attempts to continually advertise the music of Sorabji is just getting sad. It's pretty much all you do now and it's making you look pathetic.

"Attempts" is plural and so "is" should read "are" and the splitting of infinitives is not recommended.

I do not in any case "attempt" to draw attention to Sorabji's music; I succeed in so doing (and by no means only here) - it's not difficult and its success is reflected in part through the fact that various members of this and other forums have purchased the recording concerned, so the only "idiotic" and "pathetic" expressions here would appear to be your own.

As to my drawing attention to this recording being "pretty much all [that I] do now", you have no idea what I do and are accordingly unqualified to pronounce upon it, so it might be a good idea for you to refrain from "attempting" to do so.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

So, perfect_pitch, you can alter or mock up a quotation in an attempt to make it appear authentic; well, how clever! But if what you present as such a quote is really what you see when you read my posts, an urgent visit to the optician would seem to be vitally neessary.

And you can also alter the topic of a thread started by another member (albeit for one of your own posts only, at least for the time being)! Your capabilities would appear to know no bounds, even though your courtesy to said member in so doing arguably leaves much to be desired...

No offense

None taken.

but it someone can't even stand to listen to 5 minutes of that crap, how is anyone going to find beauty in it after spending hours and hours listening to the same puerile garbage.

Some pronoun confusion here, leading to abandonment of logic.

Assuming that your first "it" is meant to read "if", the question is not the one that you pose here (albeit omitting the question mark) but how "someone" who cannot stand listening to what I presume to be the first 5 minutes of Sequentia Cyclica (where one would assume most listeners to start and a fair proportion of which is in any case the Dies Iræ plainchant in its entirety harmonised in simple common chords) can possibly impact upon what "anyone" is likely to find in it by listening to considerably more of it...

For that matter, whilst it bears no key signature, the first page of this score has a tonal base that would be immediately evident to anyone with - er - perfect pitch!...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

TL:DR

[mjames]

Why do you guys (Gep, Ahinton, Dogperson etc) keep getting baited by these guys? Just ignore them and move on lol.

Honestly thought the microwave background was pretty funny but other than that, don't you guys get bored of insulting the same music all the time? Like I joined this website back in 2013 and some of you guys are still ranting over the same things you've been ranting about for over a decade. Isn't it boring? You don't like Schumann, Sorabji, whatever...move on mates. Like I'm not going to stop enjoying Chopin because Rach4ever thinks he sucks, like why would i? You're not going to change anyone's minds. Like just live your lives. lol

[ahinton]

Why do you guys (Gep, Ahinton, Dogperson etc) keep getting baited by these guys? Just ignore them and move on lol.

I cannot speak for anyone else but I am certainly not "baited" by that kind of thing (and see no evidence that anyone else is either); the fact that I have provided certain responses to these attempted barbs is not an indicator that what I'm responding to is other than water off a duck's back, so to speak.

When asked why I "promote" Sorabji's music here when almost the entire membership allegedly loathes it, my only responses can be that
a) as this is a piano forum, piano music and pianists are appropriate discussion topics here and
b) no evidence has in any case been provided that any members other than that handful of vociferous detractors do actually loathe it.

As has already been said (and as you reiterate here), if people don't happen to like certain music, that's fine and they're under no obligation to listen to it; however, when negative opinion is presented as though intelligent value judgement, it deserves to be challenged as such.

Honestly thought the microwave background was pretty funny but other than that, don't you guys get bored of insulting the same music all the time? Like I joined this website back in 2013 and some of you guys are still ranting over the same things you've been ranting about for over a decade. Isn't it boring? You don't like Schumann, Sorabji, whatever...move on mates. Like I'm not going to stop enjoying Chopin because Rach4ever thinks he sucks, like why would i? You're not going to change anyone's minds. Like just live your lives. lol

Whilst of course I take your point, it does appear that a tiny côterie of Sorabji haters (and one Schumann hater) is determined to slag off their musical bêtes noires at the smallest opportunity (or indeed none) and I fear that your urging to the contrary is unlikely to change what comes across as the habit of a lifetime.

You mention Chopin. I fail to understand how anyone can loathe Chopin but accept that there are those who do so; again, however, to suggest that his work "sucks" is to proffer a personal opinion dressed up as though a fact, for all that it is one that most pianists and others who care about piano repertoire would roundly reject as such. In short, Chopin's greatness is incapable of being compromised by a handful of people who happen not to care for his music.

Best,

Alistair

[dogperson]

Actually MJames
I have only posted twice on this thread: the first to ask others to consider what these insulting, never-ending threads might be doing to potential membership. The second one was a reply to ‘it wont affect anything’ .

I have not expressed my opinion on anything else and I have no plans to ask again that it stop.  My opinion must not be shared by anyone else and that is ok. Carry on.

[ahinton]

Actually MJames
I have only posted twice on this thread: the first to ask others to consider what these insulting, never-ending threads might be doing to potential membership. The second one was a reply to ‘it wont affect anything’ .

I realise, of course, that your post is in reply to mjames but I do share your concern as to how and to what extent the incessant ad hominem oriented posts that concern you might be affecting potential forum membership and, for that matter, existing forum membership. In my own responses to all of this stuff, I have endeavoured (and will continue to endeavour) to maintain a degree of the kind of civility whose absence is what might impact upon present and future forum membership; it is plainly obvious that no forum mebership will agree 100% on anything and that is only to be expected but, as it is a discussion group, one hopes for all such discussion to remain civilised regardless of the nature and extent of any disagreement. Moreover, as I stated previously, this problem is compounded by the presence of posts that seek erroneously to present personal opinion as fact.

I have not expressed my opinion on anything else and I have no plans to ask again that it stop.  My opinion must not be shared by anyone else and that is ok. Carry on.

You have as much right as any other member to express your opinion on whatever you choose; however, as I stated, the expression of personal opinions along without evidentially supported claims that they're is not only shared by the majority of the forum membership but also incontrovertible fact is what inevitably risks making them potentially discouraging to existing and potential forum members.

Best,

Alistair

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Why do you guys (Gep, Ahinton, Dogperson etc) keep getting baited by these guys? Just ignore them and move on lol.

Honestly thought the microwave background was pretty funny but other than that, don't you guys get bored of insulting the same music all the time? Like I joined this website back in 2013 and some of you guys are still ranting over the same things you've been ranting about for over a decade. Isn't it boring? You don't like Schumann, Sorabji, whatever...move on mates. Like I'm not going to stop enjoying Chopin because Rach4ever thinks he sucks, like why would i? You're not going to change anyone's minds. Like just live your lives. lol

Hey only his etudes suck

[ahinton]

Hey only his etudes suck

In your opinion!

Best,

Alistair

[rachmaninoff_forever]

In your opinion!

Best,

Alistair

Sure fine why not

[ahinton]

Sure fine why not

No reason other than that certain people here tend from time to time to indulge in the habit of making statements of personal opinion as though they are facts.

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

No reason other than that certain people here tend from time to time to indulge in the habit of making statements of personal opinion as though they are facts.

[ahinton]

As I indicated, what certain members post from time to time about music that they happen not to like is not "wrong" per se but is representative of personal opinions as distinct from factual value judgements; there is a world of difference between the two.

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

As I indicated, what certain members post from time to time about music that they happen not to like is not "wrong" per se but is representative of personal opinions as distinct from factual value judgements; there is a world of difference between the two.

Just because someone calls a dog-turd a 'piece of art', doesn't make it so. You can keep hyping this crap up, but don't do it in this thread.

[ahinton]

Just because someone calls a dog-turd a 'piece of art', doesn't make it so.

Indeed so - but no one has done that in this instance, since no reference to canine excrement has either been made or would have relevance.

You can keep hyping this crap up

As clarified above, I cannot do that as there is none to hype.

but don't do it in this thread.

It's a free zone...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

As clarified above, I cannot do that as there is none to hype.

For once you're right - there is nothing to hype about Sorabji.

Nothing at all...

[ahinton]

For once you're right - there is nothing to hype about Sorabji.

Nothing at all...

I suggest that you read your post again to see what it is that you accuse me of being right about!

In any event, whether and when the mere drawing of attention to new recordings of Sorabji's (or, for that matter, anyone else's) music constitutes "hype" (and there would need to be a majority agreement on a definition of that term anyway) is arguably, once again, a matter of personal opinion; that said, plenty of others are drawing attention to it besides me.

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

that said, plenty of others are drawing attention to it besides me.

I think we can clearly reason (given the response to every thread you start about it), that there are FAR more people who think his music sucks; than those who don't.

You're like a crazy person trying to convince everyone you really were abducted by aliens. Move onto another subject.

[ahinton]

I think we can clearly reason (given the response to every thread you start about it), that there are FAR more people who think his music sucks; than those who don't.

As I have had cause to note previously, there is never any indication as to who "we" are in such contexts, so your assertion here has no more value than any other unevidenced assertion; in any case, a handful of members of this (or any other) forum hardly constitutes an audience for or against anything, let alone a listeners' majority view.

You're like a crazy person trying to convince everyone you really were abducted by aliens. Move onto another subject.

It would be very difficult for me to move onto a subject other than that which you mention here, since there is clearly even less evidence of anyone "trying to convince everyone" of any such nonsensical idea than there is that "FAR more people...think (that Sorabji's) music sucks than don't.

On the evidence of what you write here, the best person to take your advice to "move onto another subject" is clearly you.

In the meantime, the sales of these CDs contiune apace and record companies continue to bring out new releases...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]