Recording Yourself Playing

[kamikaz1]

What audio recording hardware did you use? what's the best one out there?

[MarkAllison]

You don't say from what instrument. From my digital piano I connect the line out sockets on the piano to my PC sound card and use audacity  to record. On my real piano I use a Sony minidisc, however I'm not happy with the quality of the recording so I'd be interested to hear how other people record acoustic pianos - in particular with regard to microphones used.

Mark.

[kamikaz1]

Oh my bad I wanted to know what audio recording hardware do you use to record yourself playing an acoustic piano.

[kaff]

I used to use a Sony Professional DAT recorder (that's digital audio tape - quite old technology now).  It recorded very well.  But I sold it to pay for my new piano!

Kathryn

[mound]

I have a MOTU 828mkII connected via firewire to a Dell Laptop. the digital piano can be recorded directly, acoustic pianos can be miced up, I'll use a pair of AKG 414. The MOTU has 2 good mic preamps and 8 line inputs.

-paul

[Dikai]

my setup is kinda poor...
i record the music onto my yepp t5 mp3 player (it has line-in)
the problem is, the line in is only for recording from another digial player (cd/mp3 player's line-out), it's 2.5mm and only accepts stereo input, so the i need many converters...

from my yepp...

yepp -->  "2.5mm" to "3.5 female-to-3.5 female" converter--> male-female mono/stereo converter --> 1/4"/1/8" converter (for dynamic mic plug size) --> cable to the mini pre-amp --> then from preamp a $100 dynamic microphone --> microphone stand by the piano...

ouch... so many plugs...

for the preamp i use Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC200... not too expensive... canadian ~$100CAD...

[Dikai]

the recording turns out alright... never bother with 2 microphones to make things stereo... it would be very expensive to be able to make professional recording with your own equipments, as you can see, the previous dude sold his equipment to buy a new piano...  (good investment by the way)...  if you want to record some crisp-sounding music, go to a studio.... (i've never been in one, but i know they're not cheap, you need to pay for equipment rental and a recording engineer's time)....

personal recording, for a fiarly good one... just get a good microphone and a good pre-amp... (not much choice for 1 to 2 input microphone preamp tho... so it should be fine...)  ohh... the actual recording device, cheap ones, MP3 PLAYERS!!  only those with line-in tho... so i picked samsung yepp t5 because it was known to as the smallest mp3 player in the world (at the time it came out last year).... another great one is iRiver, i really like that one, but somewhat bigger and builky... because my primary use for the yepp is still listening to mp3s on the go....

[MarkAllison]

Hmm, interesting. So perhaps I may buy a new mike and an MP3 player - I'm looking to buy one of those already and will probably go for the iAudio M3 as it has mike input, line-in input and supports lots of music file formats.

Anyone got any suggestions on a mike? My piano is a Yamaha U3. Sorry for hijacking your thread kamikaz1. 

[mound]

You can't go wrong with an AKG C414, it's the "industry standard" - you could find one for around $500.. yeah, pricey, but a good long lasting investment.

Dikai - you wrote:

it would be very expensive to be able to make professional recording with your own equipments, as you can see, the previous dude sold his equipment to buy a new piano... 

Not as expensive as you might think, digitally, a decent laptop and interface is all you need.. The mic and the preamp will be the biggest determining factor, so that is where you want to invest.  Also - "previous dude sold his equipment to buy a piano" - to whom are you referring? I thought for a minute you were talking about me! I just unloaded $5k worth of gear on ebay, live sound and recording gear that I wasn't using anymore, to specifically save for a piano.. I kept my laptop/motu firewire interface/some good mics, but most of the other stuff is gone, I have all I need for peraonal recording projects.

-paul

[lilpep4ever]

personal recording, for a fiarly good one... just get a good microphone and a good pre-amp... (not much choice for 1 to 2 input microphone preamp tho... so it should be fine...) 

Sorry, I totally have no knowledge in electronic :-[s, what's a pre-amp and where can I get it?

[kamikaz1]

What if I just use a voice recorder to record myself playing an acoustic piano? Would the sound quality be at least decent or bad? I'm only recording myself to spot any errors that I might not notice while I'm playing.

[puma]

Voice recorders are really only good for one thing: recording your voice.  Anything else and quality suffers, dramatically.  The portability can be good if you come up with an idea and want to record it right away, but for recording something you'd want to play back listen to over and over, I'd invest in a porta-studio, or as someone said, a laptop with a built-in-mic or external mic. 

[kamikaz1]

what audio recording software do you guys use?

[xvimbi]

what audio recording software do you guys use?

GarageBand - it's cheap, and it's great.

[valen1]

What I find useful is a micro mini set recording device. You know the ones journalist
use. This is not the best recording, but can help during practice. 

[kamikaz1]

thanks for the info guys.

[mound]

yeah, really, if you don't really care about sound quality and just want to check yourself, just go get a basic tape recorder, set it on the desk and hit record

[Robert J]

Years ago I owned a a Crown PZM that I used on a grand piano for a long standing gig I had. I never hear about PZM any more. Is this old technology? It worked quite well for me at that time and I used it also in live situations - like churches with lots of reverb - with excellent results.

[greyrune]

Is there any free software for recording MIDI, i have an electric keyboard and a cable but all the programmes i've seen so far won't let you save on the demo version

[rafant]

In order to record my accoustic upright piano, I did some investigation in several websites and forums about piano miking (mics factory websites as Shure, Crown, etc. are good), and having a short budget, I decided to invest in 2 Crown PZM Soundgraber II mics ($120) and an Audio Buddy amplifier ($80); the mics are cheap and still are condenser type, and as boundary mics have the advantage of avoiding phase cancellations for stereo applications; the amplifier is necessary to connect both mics to my PC. But I was told that the ordinary mic mono entrance my old PC came with doesn't work to connect the amplifier, and that I need to install a digital audio card instead, so this is the next step. Later I'll invest in a CD burner and in a suitable software. It seems that only after that I'll be ready.

Currently I'm testing the best position for the mics, and have found for the moment that the best sound is obtained when they are sticked at the floor in front of the piano. But there are other locations still pending to proof. Of course the sound is not good enough yet because temporarily I'm plugging the mics directly in a cassete Deck.

For some advise about a suitable digital audio card I'll be most grateful.

[CC]

For cost effectiveness, simplicity and for evaluating your practice/playing, nothing beats a camcorder, because it is very important to SEE yourself play as well as hear.  Even when you hear a mistake, you won't know how to correct it until you see yourself play.  Your body might be moving against the rhythm, your hands/fingers may be in the wrong positions, you might discover a myriad of strange and unnecessary motions, etc. Videotaping also has the advantage that you practice performing at the same time, and you will know what you look like when performing. Video taping, I think, is a quantum jump above simple recording which gives you only part of the story.

[galonia]

But I was told that the ordinary mic mono entrance my old PC came with doesn't work to connect the amplifier, and that I need to install a digital audio card instead, so this is the next step.

Currently I'm testing the best position for the mics, and have found for the moment that the best sound is obtained when they are sticked at the floor in front of the piano. But there are other locations still pending to proof. Of course the sound is not good enough yet because temporarily I'm plugging the mics directly in a cassete Deck.

I currently have a similar set up - I use two separate condenser mics (I own one, and a friend who belongs to a rock band owns the other) - but I was advised I should buy a double mic which has an X-Y configuration.  Such a mic can then be placed right in the middle of my upright piano, inside the open lid.  However, with the two separate mics, we have to experiment a bit to get the balance right (since we don't have a pre-determined X-Y configuration).

My mics go into a mixer which provides phantom power (whatever that is) to the condenser mics, and since my laptop doesn't have a proper line input, the mixer just feeds into the mono mic input.  This is highly undesirable, apparently, but the sound quality hasn't been terrible so far - there is some problem with background noise from this, but with a bit of fiddling, it's been ok.

I was also advised to experiment with pointing the mics at different parts of the strings - right where the hammers hit the strings, or just above, or just below.  I haven't really had time to try this, but if people are experimenting, then perhaps they might like to have a go at this!

[rafant]

My mics go into a mixer which provides phantom power (whatever that is) to the condenser mics, and since my laptop doesn't have a proper line input, the mixer just feeds into the mono mic input.

Condenser mics needs an energy source, which is provided by the phanton power of the mixer. My PZMs are powered additionally by AAA batteries and they needs to operate sticked to a flat surface,  such as the floor, walls, or the inside piano lid. I'll try to use the mono mic input of the PC and I'll report the result.

[rohansahai]

It would be nice if you all post a small sample (30 secs) of the recording, so that we can compare the differences with different gadgets !!

[galonia]

OK, here's a really crappy rendition of Liszt's Consolation 3 (Lento placido) - one condenser mic used, placed outside an upright piano with its lid closed - the mic was placed closer to the upper register of the piano, too (not good).  But it was plugged into the mixer and the mic input of a laptop as previously described.

https://galonia.giantsumo.net/media/consolation3.mp3

[mound]

This is what I use when I record real pianos (as opposed to my digital)

A pair of AKG C414BXLS large diaphragm condensor mics


plugged into a Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU) 828MKII Firewire 24/96 Audio Interface:



Plugged into a Dell Inspiron 9100 laptop via firewire:


running Cakewalk Sonar:



All together,  that's around $4000 worth of "stuff", but its very portable, allows lots of editing /post processing and captures excellent recordings.. (I don't only record piano, some acoustic jazz trios and such.)

Actually I do use this same setup to record my digital as well, minus the mics (plugged direct into one of the MOTU's 8 line level inputs) I have a pair of Alesis MkII studio monitors plugged into the MOTU as well, so when I'm not out recording, I'm practicing on my digital which is always hooked up for immediate recording.

-Paul

[mound]

OK, here's a really crappy rendition of Liszt's Consolation 3 (Lento placido) - one condenser mic used, placed outside an upright piano with its lid closed - the mic was placed closer to the upper register of the piano, too (not good).  But it was plugged into the mixer and the mic input of a laptop as previously described.

Galonia - I'm confused, you plugged the mic into a mixer, and then plugged the mixer into a mic input of your laptop?  That probably introduced some unwanted noise. The mic input on your mixer has a pre-amp, which boosts the signal of the mic, and then the output of your mixer is line level.   By then plugging the line level output of your mixer into the mic input of your laptop, you are pushing it back through another pre-amp (the one built into your soundcard) - a preamp which is expecting a much lower signal. You should plug the main out of your mixer into the LINE input on your laptop.

-Paul

[rafant]

You should plug the main out of your mixer into the LINE input on your laptop.

Thanks a lot Mound for sheding light on this.

On the other hand, since I plug both mics to an Audio Buddy, which is not a mixer but a double preamplifier having independent 1/4" outputs, I'm wondering know if the PCI audio card I need to purchase must have also two 1/4" inputs or if I must use a 2-to-1 adapter instead to enter the signal into the LINE input.

I'll report the solutions as they arise.

[galonia]

mound, you are perfectly correct, but I don't have a line input on my laptop (most laptops don't) - so the mic input is the best I can do right now.

All the levels on the mic are set up so as to minimise the noise, and if you listen to the recording I posted above, then there isn't much noise - it's quite ok.  (There might be a cricket in the background though - we have a lot of wildlife where I live!)

[mound]

Thanks a lot Mound for sheding light on this.

On the other hand, since I plug both mics to an Audio Buddy, which is not a mixer but a double preamplifier having independent 1/4" outputs, I'm wondering know if the PCI audio card I need to purchase must have also two 1/4" inputs or if I must use a 2-to-1 adapter instead to enter the signal into the LINE input.

I'll report the solutions as they arise.

a standard soundcard will only have one line level input - your Audio Buddy has 2 outputs, so if you want to mix them both to one input, you'll need to go to Radio Shack and get an adaptor that will combine them both into one.   Using your Audio Buddy, if you had a soundcard that had multiple inputs (like an MAudio Delta 1010 or something to that effect, there are many multi-input audio interfaces available) - you can then record 2 tracks simultaneously.  If you have no need to mult-track recording, a single input soundcard will work, but it should at least be one with a line level input, standard soundcards don't really have very good preamps built into them..  FWIW - the setup I use as listed in my previous post, I can simultaneously record up to 10 tracks. 2 mic'd, 8 direct input (like synths or drum machines)

galonia wrote: All the levels on the mic are set up so as to minimise the noise, and if you listen to the recording I posted above, then there isn't much noise - it's quite ok.

Right - nothing in and of itself is going to plain out stop it from working, it's a question of quality. this (sorta) is known as "gain staging" - using the preamp to add gain to the mic, vs. adding little gain with the preamp, so that you can later add more gain by necessity.. It will work, but it's not ideal, that's all.

-paul