Chopin op.10 #4 :technical question

[grigo]

Is it possible to play with both hands simultaenously the 4 notes: A,F,D,C in the end of measure 47 at normal 176 speed? (Right hand:4,2,1,2 and left hand 1,2,3,4) 

I carefully watched  at slow motion 2 videos with performances of this etude.The first is Papazian live recording of his 28th of March  1995 concert at Carnegie Hall and the second is Lisitza’s new DVD.They both skip these 4 notes with the left hand and jump directly to the octave (B#) in the beginning of measure 48.This is almost imperceptible to the listener because the right hand does the job and the speed is really high.(Lisitza plays the etude in 1’45’’ which is more than 176 ).I can play everything correctly at lower speed but at least for me it’s almost impossible to achieve good touch at a higher speed .
I’m an amateur pianist.Obviously “cheating” is a tool in the bag of tricks of most professionals?
By the way Richter plays this etude at the mind-boggling 216

[musicsdarkangel]

damn 216?  I think that is too fast.

That's what Cziffra does.

[steinwayguy]

I think 176 is too fast, I'm more of a 160-168 person, but maybe that's just because that's all I can handle. If you can handle 216, go for it...

[lostinidlewonder]

Why not use Rh: 5321 ?

[chromatickler]

 

[steinwayguy]

I use 4-2-1-2 in the RH and 1-2-3-4 in the LH and it works out fine...

[Software]

I have at least 8 different recordings of this etude, all of them slower than 176 (let alone 216).  Among them are recordings by Richter and Cziffra.

I can't believe it is possible to play it at 216. Can you please give me the exact details of this recording?

[chromatickler]

I can't believe it is possible to play it at 216. Can you please give me the exact details of this recording?

Join da SDC and witness da legendary Rectum video performance. 1m31secz from first note to last. 

[Software]

SDC? Rectum? Pardon my ignorance, but what does this mean?

[redhead]

There's a clip in the movie, "Richter, the enigma" where he plays this at approx 1 min, 33 or so.  That comes to about 210.

[grigo]

Thank you SteinwayGuy
This is exactly what I expected to hear from a very good pianist-that to play correctly these 4 notes with the left hand is not something impossible (especially the last 2 -the D with the 3rd finger and the C# with the 4th-again :left hand at high speed-because the beauty of this etude is in its dynamism ).Obviously I have to practice more my left hand.I started playing the piano relatively late in life.In my young years I was mostly an accordeon player.I even won the Sofia's accordeon competition (the capital city of Bulgaria) long time ago.So my right hand is perfect but this damned left hand...Anyway, thanks again

[grigo]

Hi Software,
you say that you cannot believe someone can play the Chopin 10/4 at 216.You can buy the video "Young richter on Soviet TV" from Parnasuus .The web page is:

https://www.parnassusrecords.com/richtervid.htm

and the video is :
PCV 9 - "Young Richter on Soviet TV" (60").$30

He plays this etude at his home and the record is from the early sixties.
Seeing is believing.He plays it in a little more than 1'35''

[lenny]

WRONG

he plays it in 1 minute 31 seconds

one of the most monumental achievments in raw technical prowess EVER

https://glumolwiki.free.fr/richy/richter10.4-highres.avi

i found this link to it

TREASURE THIS VIDEO - FOR YOU WILL LIKELY NEVER SEE THE LIKES OF IT EVER AGAIN!

too fast? **** no!!

fast enough? just about 

[chromatickler]

FOR YOU WILL LIKELY NEVER SEE THE LIKES OF IT EVER AGAIN!

'likely' is da keyword here 

[lenny]

i mean, the combination of the performance itself and the antiquated looking fild and random location

the combination of these elements make the achievment stratospheric

[grigo]

Great link from lenny
By listening to it one can easily get an inferiority complex...

[anda]

WRONG

he plays it in 1 minute 31 seconds

one of the most monumental achievments in raw technical prowess EVER

https://glumolwiki.free.fr/richy/richter10.4-highres.avi

i'm a huge richter fan, but this etude is definitely not to my taste.

oh, as for fast - i agree, it doesn't get faster

[pianowelsh]

The only way to find whether its possible is for you to try it! It may be possible for some here and not others - if it dosen't work for you then it dosent work! There are not so many hard and fast rules about fingering issues its about what suits your style of playing and current ability. With a study like op10/4 over the course of several years you may indeed play this passage several ways so Experiment - its half the fun of piano playing!