Thinking about posing nude...

[invisible]

...for art classes at a nearby college.  I have decided that this may help me to overcome stage fright.  Anyone willing to share whether or not you have ever done this and whether it did indeed change your feelings about being on stage and performing for people?

This is my first post, thought I would start off with a whammy.  I am a uni student studying geography, but I am thinking about switching to music/piano because I can't ever tear myself away from practising!

sincerely,
invisible

[Ruro]

LOL, oh my word, sounds crazy but I would think it should work!

I'm only a newbie pianist, but I know I would make a million mistakes in front of an audience because of my nervousness, simply because the comparison of that to my family listening is a vast difference.

When you consider your prosposal in contrast with an audience (and you dressed, mind) it would be a piece of cake

And on that geography note, in my case I'm gonna finish my computer course first, then atleast I'll have a backup plan incase piano path goes pear shaped for any number of reasons (permanent hand injury? I hope not!). Anyway, I almost finished mine, hopefuly your in the same boat ^_^

[Tash]

ok well i haven't tried doing any life modelling before but i have been the artist drawing the model. so from that perspective i'm not sure if it'd help overcome stage fright or not because they're 2 completely different things. like life modelling would be a good way to become very comfortable with your body and standing in front of a whole lot of randoms, who really aren't (or at least shouldn't be) thinking about your bits and pieces because you're seen as an object and we're just trying to get it all into proportion and stuff.
but it's an interesting concept, if you have a real problem just having a whole lot of people staring at you for a while on stage then i think life modelling could be good for that because by the end of it you would be so completely comfortable in that situation. so hoped that helped!

[pianonut]

i have a different opinion.  posing nude would not increase your practice time.  it would lessen it.  for me, practicing a lot before a performance helps ease my jitters.  i can't say i'm completely over them, but i've found a few things that help me.  one is potassium.  i like to eat bananas before a recital.  and calcium (milk) because it helps me relax.  i used to make milkshakes almost everyday (you know those power shakes).  then as i became older, the milk just didn't go over so well, so i put a little milk, a lot of water, and a banana.  it still worked.

everyone tells you to imagine something different.  like the AUDIENCe in their underwear.  that never worked for me.  or, imagining playing for your family.  that didn't work either (probably because they ignore me).  just recently i have found that if i imagine playing my piece in front of the composer of whatever piece it is, (and read about them and absorb what was happening at the time they wrote it), i feel a sort of calmness come over me.  i'm not playing only for the audience, but for as true of an interpretation as i can muster.  then i become "into" the piece.

something else that is personal to me, is that i don't like to wait around.  the more i wait, the more nervous i get.  so, when i go on stage, i don't sit too long before putting my fingers on the keys and just getting started.  i try to set the tempo and idea of the first couple of bars in my head, and then start accordingly.

speaking of the posing, don't you think it cheapens your self worth?  i say, get married, let your husband/wife paint you all they want.  marrying artisitic people can be a real zinger (with lots of ups and downs - and carrying on) but it IS true love.  my husband is a singer (baritone).  i have never painted him or visa-versa, but i did give him a calendar of myself (i bought twelve bikinis on sale one january) for every month.  (right after a pregnancy, too, so i had a pretty good bosom).  save the specialness of your body for someone who truly appreciates it.

[iwy42]

i actually have a friend who does this sorta thing.  He swears it helps him perform better.  everybody has brought up good points, but I think an art class can truly appreciate the body just as much as a spouse can.  it can be a beaurtiful things this situation.  how exactly does it cheapen self worth?  i don't get it.

[pianonut]

rarer things are more expensive, right!  i say "be true, be rare, and be pure."  many concert artists are this way.  they are very private individuals.  if you "make it" as a professional artist, your personal private life may be something you will be glad that you only shared with your spouse.

i can't say i haven't admired michelangelo's david or dega paintings.  "easy money" can come from performing piano for an evening at a restaurant, tho.  just the other night, i heard some good music at a restaurant named "melody." it was the first time i heard "senze fine."  i love that song!
 

[dinosaurtales]

That's incredible!  I never would have thought of such a thing to get over stage fright - but who knows it coiuld work!  They normally suggest picturing all the OTHER people nude, but anything's worth a try!  I hate being nervous.

[Brian Healey]

I could never pose nude!


I'm afraid I would make everyone else jealous 


Peace,
Bri

[m1469]

hmmmm.... interesting     :- 

[brewtality]

Yundi Li should try posing nude, it might help him build up courage to step out of lang lang's shadow. If all else fails, he can go back to wearing women's panties which seemed to work quite nicely during the Chopin competition.

[dorfmouse]

Dear Invisible

An invisible nude art model! Great concept .... you may be responsible for starting a whole new art movement

I used to attend life drawing classes and I found the attitude to the models,who came in all shapes,sizes and degrees of beauty, was always extremely respectful and appreciative of their willingness to hold uncomfortable poses for long stretches of time. Not so easy money. And I wasn't aware that any of them were sharing their private lives with us

(You could get lots of mental practice done! )

[invisible]

Yes, I immensly enjoyed the concept of an invisible, nude art model, I am happy somebody else thought about it as well.  I am still somewhat undecided here, but leaning on the side of actually going ahead with it.   

My feelings about music feel quite intimate and rare to me, does this mean that I should not share it lest it will not be appropriately appreciated?  For me it is related.  There are certain reasons I would do this, and I certainly am not sharing my "private life" in the ways that have been implied, by doing this.  I am simply thinking of a way to really put myself out there to push my personal limits, hoping to work through my shyness.  It feels extreme to me, and this is exactly why I think it is a good idea. 

It is absolutely different than many other nude involvements I can think of... but would not do  .

sincerely,
invisible

[Tash]

pianonut,

you can't say that artists wouldn't appreciate the nude body less so than someone you're going out with/married to/etc. minus a few moronic idiots who'd go to classes just to perve on the model, the real artists have a great respect for the human body, which you can see in the paintings of so many artists, eg. titian, like i would pose nude for him to get a painting like his venus of urbino or whatever. it's an object of beauty rather than an object of sex, which separates life drawings from porn. sure there are some artists who do go against the idea of the body as beautiful eg. lucien freud.
thus there is a difference between porn and nude paintings! so if you don't appreciate the bodies of all those various people in art galleries then i dunno, you're weird...

the models who i have drawn were lovely people who were obviously completely comfortable with their bodies, and drawing them didn't degrade them at all (one found it humerous that i had neglected to give her a head!)

and speaking of it lessening your practice time, that's not the point of the exercise. invisible is trying to get over the nervousness of performing, so practicing isn't necesarily going to achieve that. lol yeah bring on the mental practice!

[johnnypiano]

Dear Invisible.  Why don't you just play the piano?  That is hard enough, nerves or no nerves.  And you will be exposing your inner self, which is a lot harder than standing naked in front of a lot of folks who probably won't appreciate your superb, athletic body, but who might appreciate your music.   

[earthward]

I'm skeptical that it would necessarily help you get over "stage fright."  It might help you feel more comfortable in front of people but fear of performing is a different thing.  And anyway I think for most people it doesn't ever completely go away.  You just learn to accept the fear and not be ruled by it.   But it wouldn't hurt to try (posing nude I mean)! 

Way to catch people's attention by the way... watch the "views" count skyrocket.

[lenny]

i think invisible is a troll, albeit a highly amusing one

[invisible]

Well, I often inhabit caves and various subterranean dwellings, but I don't think that this alone qualifies me as a troll.  This would have thickened the plot however, sorry I cannot be of more help with this.

I am quite serious about what I have begun here actually.  I am not convinced on either side at this point.  I would say that posing nude for an art class would be one of those things which serve the purpose of me being able to tell myself something like: 'well, I have posed nude in front of a classroom full of people, certainly I can walk out on stage fully clothed and play the piano from my heart'.

I don't know, I think people can be far too timid in the things they do.  Stage fright could probably be handled by a number of crazy things... like sky diving, to name one.  The main point bieng pushing one's personal limits.

Well, thank you all for your feed back.  I still have not heard from anyone who has actually done it.  Anyone out there?

sincerely,
invisible

[lenny]

well thank god horowitz never tried this method 

i still doubt its practicality, they are completely different things

[invisible]

well thank god horowitz never tried this method 

Who knows, maybe he did   

[Floristan]

It's just life drawing at an art class at school.  Big deal.  Lots of students do it to make a little extra money.  I did it when I was a student.  You never have to hold one pose for too long, they give you breaks and usually plenty of hot coffee and blankets or robes to warm up during breaks.  It beats waiting on tables, just doesn't pay as well.   

[Ed Marlo]

Posing for a life drawing class is in no way degrading to your body.  The one main reason for drawing a human nude as opposed to another inanimate object is proportion.  draw a vase a bit wider than it is supposed to be and it looks like a vase.  Big deal it is wider.  Draw a human body with a 'wider than it should be' foot, arm, or any other part, and it looks plain wrong.  For it to all look correct everything has to be bang on - and that is the main skill that is developed during life drawing classes.  There isn't (usually) any sexual element - in this case a boob is a curve to be drawn, not something to get flustered over.

Anyway, enough ranting.  I personally think it is a great idea.  If you are really shy and reserved usually, this is a great way of taking the giant leap and breaking down any barriers.  Although there are many fewer people watching you than there would be at a concert, the concept is the same.  Feel comfortable unclothed in front of 20 people - feel comfortable clothed in front of a few hundred!  Anything that gets you out there talking to people, putting yourself in a position where you are being watched and judged will help with your confidence.  I do close up magic..  before I started I was very shy and was afraid to even answer in class.  Actually forcing myself to perform magic in front of some very critical people in college (at the time I'd have rather been sitting there naked!) over time built up a thick skin to this performing lark, and now I have no problem talking in front of hundreds of people etc.

I say go for it!

[Tash]

can someone please explain to me why on earth an artists would not appreciate someone's naked body? WHY i ask you? i sure as hell appreciate it, like thank god for the people who are willing to take off their clothes in order to give us poor learning artists a chance to learn about drawing the human body and how each part relates to each other. people it's an incredibly old tradition and we sure as hell appreciate it, and not in some immature oooh naked body how sexual kind of way because that's moronic and you obviously need to grow up

[Torp]

Just some thoughts…..

The effectiveness of posing nude to overcome stage fright while playing the piano will be dependent on your ability to take lessons from one experience in life to another.  When you contemplate posing nude, do you have the same physiological response as you do when you contemplate performing a piece in front of an audience?  Chances are they may be similar.  You may find that when you contemplate posing nude your heart rate rises due to what I’ll classify broadly as fear.  More than likely it’s based on your own perceptions and beliefs about the social mores surrounding the naked body.  In other words being afraid of what others might think.  This discomfort has a physiological effect on the body, our heart rate rises, our body temperature rises, we become tense, we begin to perspire, etc.  Very similar physiological changes can/do occur when we perform a piano piece in front of an audience.

Posing naked in a professional, welcoming atmosphere can subject you to the same challenges as playing in front of a professional, welcoming audience.  As such, you can take the time to develop the skills to overcome these challenges without also having the added complication of having to place your fingers on the correct notes in the correct order.  However, the only value this exercise will have for your piano playing is IF you can then take those skills to the recital/performance arena. Developing the confidence and skill to “bare it all” is applicable across many areas of life.

As Lenny points out, some naked bodies aren’t as nice to look at as others.  Some piano players aren’t as nice to listen to as others either.  The analogies could probably go on and on……But remember, very few people ever have the internal fortitude to strip themselves naked and put themselves on display.  Very few people ever pose nude either.

Jef

[invisible]

Torp:

The effectiveness of posing nude to overcome stage fright while playing the piano will be dependent on your ability to take lessons from one experience in life to another.

This is indeed my most efficient avenue of learning, by taking from one experience and using it in another.  It is perhaps the only way for anything to make any sense to me at all.  But that is a whole other subject in itself  .

When you contemplate posing nude, do you have the same physiological response as you do when you contemplate performing a piece in front of an audience?

Yes, this is precisely my point here.  Also, It is exactly related to what people might be thinking of me.  I have music in me that I want to share, but I can rarely get over my shyness.  Now my shyness has been  EXTREME in the past and continues to get better.  It still needs improvement.

But one thing I have noticed for sure about myself is that when I really play the music in front of people, I feel absolutely naked and at this point I get in my own way (which is highly annoying to say the least).

Well, whether people decide my body is beautiful or not, is not really the point of the exercise.  What it boils down to is that I am simply hoping to find the confidence to feel naked in front of people (which is how I really feel when I play music from my heart to someone who is truly receptive in their's).

I am undecided as to whether or not I should care what people think when I play.  I think I should care, but not really.  Strange this stuff.

sincerely,
invisible

[pianonut]

here it goes again!  since you are undecided, i have to say something.  you haven't done it yet!  tash may not agree, but i am old enough to be her mother.  that must count for something.  when i was younger, i would tell my mother that she was "out of it," too.  now that i have three children, things take on a whole different hue.  it seems that i have a need to see people of all ages reach their potentials (not that i know so much) and i freely give advice when people are undecided about something.

this may seem like an odd approach, but i think the naked human body was meant to arouse passion (and that it is highly unnatural to paint a nude and then not want to make love right after).  many young people make the mistake that dancing in nightclubs, or exposing themselves in different situations is not really a big deal.  but, you do have people that (once they see this) cannot control their own selves and commit crimes or even murder (either angry, or curious, or crazy).  many young women have gone missing because of this.  i don't know about men, but i suppose them too.

with a specific partner (which could be an artist) you have #1 privacy  #2 trust  #3 the ability to follow through on desires at any moment.  here's the lyrics of senza fine: (they sound to me like a nude model talking - but the music that goes with it is beautiful) 

My time moves slowly
Gliding across the veil of my nude skin
If I should cross the border you made for me
Maybe I would not be here

But not what sense does it make
To try and embrace a more pristine past
Looking forward I will take the risk
But I'll find an answer to my why's

All that you will be
Has already been written    (I believe it is being written right now)

by Lacuna Coil
This song is very sensuous and to me, if i made money playing it for people it would be much better than actually doing it.  God calls us all into account for causing people to lust.  If we cause someone else to commit adultery by looking at us, it will be written down.  And, we may unwittingly cause ourselves danger.

[Torp]

I have music in me that I want to share, but I can rarely get over my shyness.  Now my shyness has been  EXTREME in the past and continues to get better.  It still needs improvement.

Then I think you're on the right track.  You're looking for ways to challenge yourself to grow in ways that would be meaningful and applicable to your own internal beliefs.  Posing nude for your significant other may not be difficult nor may it cause the same internal struggle for you.

I have yet to experience a nude posing session where everyone stormed the model after the session looking to complete their obligatory love making; so I think you can rest assured that your modelling will be received with the graciousness and respect it deserves.

Jef

[Tash]

yeah there really is nothing sexual about life drawing classes (possibly because half of them are old, no offence to those of the older generations here!). like you barely think about it, i never found it any kind of turn on whatsoever! thus it's different from the skanks who go around flaunting their bodies at clubs wearing a piece of cloth around their butt and something skimpy on the top. there is an obvious 'look at how hot i am' kind of vibe in that situation. but in drawing classes the perspective is strictly proffessional. if you did make any kind of vulgar comment then the teacher would probably kick you out. sure, there are probably cases in which some might've had a stalker of some sort, but really that's not overly frequent.
yes nude paintings in the past were commissioned for the patron's own personal pleasure, but that doesn't go beyond the man and his lover, the artist is not involved in this whatsoever.
the artists will always be courteous and very respectful of the model.

[pianonut]

changing the subject just slightly, i accidentally put lacuna coil when i meant monica mancini.  she sings senza fine in a very italian mode and you can see the difference between class and brass.

[whynot]

Hmm, many many people are fascinated by your topic!  I have thought about posing, haven't quite done it yet!  If you are in the U.S., you've probably noticed that we don't have the healthiest/ sanest attitudes about sex or nudity.  There's heavy pressure at both extremes:  dress trashy, show everything all the time or no one will notice you (nightclub scene or, in my city, any sidewalk... or junior high school, sadly) versus nice girls don't do it but cool guys do.  Where's the middle?  To be attractive without being trashy, to enjoy our bodies without destroying any lives... it's complicated, and not a lot of role models for living reasonably.  Unless you know some older French women-- they have a lot of this figured out.  I think nude modeling for a small respectful class has merit for many reasons, including your goal of being more comfortable in front of people for playing.  I played a wedding a while back where a bride took me aside in the rehearsal and told me she was completely terrified, and did that mean she shouldn't get married.  I have a trustworthy face--strangers actually tell me things like that.  I asked her, what if she could say her vows without all those people there, just the groom and her parents, did that scare her?  No.  And what if she got married in front of everyone but didn't have to say anything out loud?  No, that wasn't scary, either.  She wasn't afraid of marrying this man, she was afraid of speaking in public!  Not the same thing at all.   It's my way of saying I think you are wise to look at your fears so specifically, dealing with the actual problem instead of just saying, I have stage fright.  I wouldn't have expected safety issues with this, but since someone brought that up, there are women's drawing groups out there who take turns modeling for each other.  Best of luck.   

       

[krenske]

Dear Invisible
I would like to offer advice, but would need more information.
Anyway, wouldn't it be better to pose nude first in front of a reliable, friendly crowd. Like us here at pianoforum for example?

[Tash]

just reviving a few day old topic but i want to have one last comment! a realiable, friendly crowd- go somewhere that has a good reputation, like an art school or uni, because at least you are more likely to have some serous artists there, and we're friendly!
secondly, yes i guess the skanks are an invaluble part of the nightclub scene, but i personally don't go for all that 99% of the time and have little respect for those who go around incredibly drunkenly skankinly throwing them infront of guys. but hey the guys are sleazy as so i guess it works out...
and lastly, i like what whynot said. hmmm can't be bothered on elaborating on that.
ok now i'm done the thread can rest if it wishes

[vivacelife]

LAST comment,
i don't think that will help the stage fear, well, unless u play piano nude on stage...

[pianonut]

found a short story when looking up the latin words 'nunc dimittis' - this is a story about what can go wrong when you pose nude:
www.roalddahlfans.com/shortstories/nunc.php#plot

[janice]

I have a trustworthy face--strangers actually tell me things like that.         

Me too!!!!!  I've had complete strangers tell me their life stories!!  I think that I must have a certain "look" about me!  I bet you do too!  And the thing is, I think I bring this upon myself because I absolutely LOVE listening to people!!

[jas]

I have decided that this may help me to overcome stage fright.

God, that would give me stage fright for life! That said, though, it would be an interesting experience. Nude art is lovely when it's well done. The human body's a beautiful thing! Good for you, if you go through with it.

Jas

[stevie]

i just read through this thread and i think it is a joke.

i couldnt even do this kind of thing if i wanted, certain proportions are extremely irregular.

[thalbergmad]

I have posed nude for the Fortean Times.

[BoliverAllmon]

i just read through this thread and i think it is a joke.

i couldnt even do this kind of thing if i wanted, certain proportions are extremely irregular.

not that my proportions are irregular (at least I don't think so) when I get nervous things happen. Not that great for an art class.

[pianowelsh]

Mate if your invisible anyway i cant see what all the fuss is about!

[sevencircles]

Something tells me that Valentina Lisitsa posing nude for playboy (I don´t think they turn her down) will bring virtuoso piano back to the mainstream (Well, sort of at least).

[thalbergmad]

I was in conversation with the organist at Lichfield Cathedral a few years back. He told me in all honesty that he did on a couple of occasions give concerts in the nude, due to the heat in the organ loft.

[Bouter Boogie]

To answer your question: I think I would never pose nude. I would feel too uncomfartable by even just thinking of it.

- BB

[erik-]

You could also play the piano nude in front of your window

[Jacey1973]

Hmmm i think it's rather irrelevant.

Well, it might improve your confidence in general, but when you perform, well for me it's a mental thing. It is my brain/concentration/artistry that is under pressure...but i can see your thinking behind this...

[gorbee natcase]

Well if you was a close friend of mine, I would proberbly try and talk you out of it.

[stevie]

Well if you was a close friend of mine, I would proberbly try and talk you out of it.

what if it were a close HOTTTT female friend? 

[leahcim]

what if it were a close HOTTTT female friend? 

If she's already a close female friend and you want to see her naked, I'm sure she'll understand if you ask her.

Failing that, if you've not seen one before, get an internet account.

Although it's difficult to see if you're talking about nookie or art - I don't see why anyone with close hot female friends is going to get over excited about seeing a pair of boobs in a drawing class - unless they've managed to personally achieve what 2000 years of Christianity tried and failed to do and put a halt to biology.

[stevie]

hahaha, i wouldnt mind seeing some boobs, whats wrong with that?

also, the female genitalia can be a very beautiful thing, the human body is a work of art.....well thats what my girlfriends tell me about my body.

[Bouter Boogie]

You could also play the piano nude in front of your window

Well, that's a good idea

- BB

[pianistimo]

dear leahcim,

christianity didn't try to put a halt to biology.  otherwise, birth control would be used more.  christians, on the whole, tend to have more children.  i don't know if this means they have more sex, but it's more accessable sex because they are usually married.

there are many things that one can be scared of.  bungee jumping.  speaking in public.  eating worms.  i suppose most things are a matter of practice (or learning how so you don't kill yourself the first time out - as in skydiving).  i would say the closest i came to killing myself naturally was downhill skiing for the first time.  it didn't help my piano playing, but it might have helped my self-confidence.

what would posing nude do for a person except embarrass them?