What to do about the RH in Chopin Op 62 no 2

[billym]

Hi everyone, Happy Memorial Day! It's a habit of mine to be playing about 2 or 3 pieces outside of the ones my teacher and I are working on, so this past weekend I decided to try out Chopin's lovely nocturne op. 62 no. 2 in E major. I am still learning the outer sections but I know I can learn them on my own just fine. But the middle section is a beast and I need some help as I don't have time to work with my teacher on this. The left hand is totally fine but how the heck am I supposed to cross 3 over 4 while doing chords voicing in the RH? (measure 39 right off the bat) Does anyone have any tips because I can do the chords with the left hand but can't add that upper melody! If the answer is to just put it off until I have a more advanced technique, I'm fine with that answer as well. Sorry if the attachment photo is crappy I took it from a weird angle with my laptop. Enjoy the hand reveal. I appreciate your response!

[jgranata13]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, you're referring to beat 2 of the first measure on the page, where they indicate 3-4-3 on C-sharp, B-sharp, C-sharp, right?

There are a number of things you could do here:

• For my hand, taking 3-5-3 is actually more comfortable, because the pinky doesn't hit the black key when trying to cross it under.  This motion is not that uncommon - it comes up frequently in Bach, for example - and it might be worth your while to play around with wrist/elbow position, hand height, etc. to figure out a comfortable execution for your hand.
• You can take 5-5 on E, D-sharp instead of 5-4, so that you still have 3 available to take B-sharp
• If you don't like that because you want to connect the E and D-sharp (it won't be audible because of the pedal anyways), you could take 5-4 and switch 4-5 on the D-sharp, or 5-4-3 and switch 3-4 on the C-sharp
• you could also take the F-sharp/A dyads from the middle voice in the LH and then you have 2 free to take the B-sharp

[/li][/list]

[dw4rn]

• You can take 5-5 on E, D-sharp instead of 5-4, so that you still have 3 available to take B-sharp

jgranata13 has already told you all you need to know, I just wanted to say that I think you should try this first, it's so much more simple and natural than your printed fingering.
Don't worry about the 5-5, you can make it sound legato anyway.

[lelle]

I'm going to be the annoying contrarian in this thread and say that if you find crossing 3 over 4 (and vice versa) difficult you should absolutely learn this passage with that fingering, simply because it will be a valuable opportunity for learning. The given fingering has some merit and crossing this way can feel completely natural and easy if you develop the needed technique.

The left hand is totally fine but how the heck am I supposed to cross 3 over 4 while doing chords voicing in the RH?

Can you explain in a bit more detail what seems to be blocking you from doing this? As long as you keep your hand supple as you hold the notes of the chords and play the melody it should feel comfortable and natural.

[billym]

Can you explain in a bit more detail what seems to be blocking you from doing this? As long as you keep your hand supple as you hold the notes of the chords and play the melody it should feel comfortable and natural.

It strains my 4th finger to bend it inwards is all and I can't maintain a relaxed hand at all. Do you think that taking it very slow and practicing repetition with smooth movements of the hand can work?

For now I've found that jgranata13's suggestion to take 3 on the B# works best for me.

[lelle]

It strains my 4th finger to bend it inwards is all and I can't maintain a relaxed hand at all. Do you think that taking it very slow and practicing repetition with smooth movements of the hand can work?

For now I've found that jgranata13's suggestion to take 3 on the B# works best for me.

That's perfectly fine! My idea was mainly to explore how to use the more difficult fingering, because in the future you may encounter situations where crossing 3 and 4 is the best or only available solution. (Examples include Chopin op 10 no 2 or op 25 no 6, for example).

I can try to give you something to play with that may help you figure out what to do:

First try playing only C sharp with a perfectly relaxed and comfortable hand. Pretend like you don't know you'll have to go to B sharp with 4 in a second.

Then, move your hand so that your 4th finger ends up in position over the B sharp, without having to bend it inward. Keep the hand and wrist very relaxed and comfortable as you do so. At some point you'll need to let go of the C sharp or you'll have to twist your hand or bend your 4th finger a lot so just let yourself do so.

The key is to stay very relaxed and smooth, and making the movement feel natural and easy. If you feel like you need to bend your 4th finger inwards in an uncomfortable way you need to help your finger out by moving your hand instead of the finger. When you can do this quickly and smoothly it'll basically be and sound legato.

When you add the chords held with 1 2 you'll basically do the same thing as above. Ensure that you are still keeping your hand very elastic and relaxed.

Let me know if this helps.