Schumann - comments on learning and playing the Davidsbündlertänze

[pcaraganis]

I love these pieces, and although the majority of it is far above my current level, learning the entire work is a long-term goal of mine.  Henle rates the entire work at level 7, but doesn't break down the separate pieces by difficulty.

[edit] I'm interested in hearing people's general thoughts on learning and playing this piece. Has anyone here studied it? Thanks!

[anacrusis]

How do you think knowing people's rankings would help you? My thinking is that you could try playing each of them and see which ones seem manageable for you at this time, and then learn those and leave the rest for later.

[pcaraganis]

It's less about "helping" I suppose and more a desire to start a conversation about the piece in general and people's experiences in learning and playing it.

[lelle]

I haven't played this piece but I find the following recording very enjoyable, have you heard it?

[pcaraganis]

I hadn't heard this one - thank you for sharing! I like his interpretation, unfussy with a lot of feeling.

[achoo42]

If Henle rates it a 7, then it is a serious mistake on Henle's part. Davidsbundlertanze is by far one of the most physically and mentally difficult works by Schumann and requires not only complete technical prowess but a highly developed artistry to pull off. It is in the same boat as works like the Chopin 4th Ballade and the Brahms Handel Variations in that only mature high-level performers can perform it convincingly.

[anacrusis]

I mean every piece demands complete technical prowess to play well, but do you really have to be that good to play Davidsbundlertanze at some kind of decent level?

[achoo42]

I mean every piece demands complete technical prowess to play well, but do you really have to be that good to play Davidsbundlertanze at some kind of decent level?

Yes, for the whole thing. First off, you are juggling 30-40 minutes of music. That by itself is very difficult for non-advanced players, regardless of the difficulty of the music itself. As I'm sure you are aware, the challenge in keeping an audience connected to a 35 minute piece and making it sound cohesive is one of the gateways between a good and a great player.

Second off, some of the pieces are playable on its own for late intermediate or early advanced, but there are several movements which cannot be played convincingly unless you are a virtuoso. The movements in question are No.6, No.13, and No.16. I have heard grad students at my university butcher these sections and when you listening to live recordings of great pianists, these are where the most notes are missing.

I sometimes feel that Davidsbundlertanze is perhaps the hardest work in terms of the ratio between how it sounds (not so difficult) and how difficult it is to play (very difficult). There are harder works overall but none that have such a disparity in between the notes on the page and the notes in the hands.

[anacrusis]

Yes, for the whole thing. First off, you are juggling 30-40 minutes of music. That by itself is very difficult for non-advanced players, regardless of the difficulty of the music itself. As I'm sure you are aware, the challenge in keeping an audience connected to a 35 minute piece and making it sound cohesive is one of the gateways between a good and a great player.

Second off, some of the pieces are playable on its own for late intermediate or early advanced, but there are several movements which cannot be played convincingly unless you are a virtuoso. The movements in question are No.6, No.13, and No.16. I have heard grad students at my university butcher these sections and when you listening to live recordings of great pianists, these are where the most notes are missing.

I sometimes feel that Davidsbundlertanze is perhaps the hardest work in terms of the ratio between how it sounds (not so difficult) and how difficult it is to play (very difficult). There are harder works overall but none that have such a disparity in between the notes on the page and the notes in the hands.

Had a look at Davidsbudlertanze and you're right. I think I had them confused with something else by Schumann, Papillons perhaps? Seems like my Schumann repertoire knowledge was worse than I thought.

[krncandi]

I love these pieces, and although the majority of it is far above my current level, learning the entire work is a long-term goal of mine.  Henle rates the entire work at level 7, but doesn't break down the separate pieces by difficulty.

[edit] I'm interested in hearing people's general thoughts on learning and playing this piece. Has anyone here studied it? Thanks!

Schumann is another level of understanding his music. He's very difficult and you need the understanding and capturing of his characters in his fantasy, playfulness, and his love for Clara. Davidsbundlertanze, Carnaval, and Kreisleriana are very difficult works by Schumann. In order to understand his mind, I recommend Kinderszenen and Faschingsschwank aus Wien to start. Those are good introductions in understanding his style and an intermediate level difficulty to master before attempting the other works

[pcaraganis]

Thank you all for reviving this old thread! Yes, this piece is definitely still beyond my level I will wait until I have mastered Kinderszenen (and maybe Waldszenen) before I think about seriously studying it.

My hope with this thread was just to get people's reflections on the work, and on the specific pieces within it, things they like, things they don't like - either from a pianist's technical perspective, or even just general appreciation and critique as a work of art. It's one of my favorites but I don't see a ton of discussion of it. Anyway, thanks to those who have weighed in.