Student cries at her first lesson - Help!!!

[patricia1960]

I would love to hear how to handle this situation.  This is the very FIRST time I've had a student cry at her first lesson.  At first I was a little reluctant to start teaching her  (age 5).  I've been teaching her older brother (now age 8 ) for almost a year and her mother begged me to start with her.  Again I was a little reluctant not so much because of her age but I've watched her from afar in dealing with her mother and brother and didn't feel she is mature enough.  I've taught 5 year olds before without any problems.  I gave her a little preliminary test and she is academically ready and showed an eagerness to learn because of her brother so I was thrown for a loop when the 30 minute session ended she started sniffling and ran to her mother and burst into tears.  I thought to myself, what just happened here?  I talked to her mother and she told me that she is a perfectionist and didn't feel that she did well.   I assured her that there was no problem, I took it very slow being the first lesson.  Needless to say I felt bad because I've never encountered anything like this before.  I welcome any suggestions and advice on this matter!  Should I continue? Thanks so much.

Patricia

[Brian Healey]

Yikes.......that's why I don't teach little kids.

On the plus side, she's a perfectionist, which is a good trait to have for a pianist. However, on the negative side, she's a perfectionist, so she will never be happy as a pianists because things are rarely perfect 

Sorry, there wasn't anything helpful about this post.


Peace,
Bri

[ted]

You say the mother begged you to teach the girl and the mother said she is a perfectionist - at five ? Could it be that Mum's a bit of a problem and not the kid ?

[patricia1960]

Umm Ted, something to think about.  I never looked at it that way.  Maybe the child feels she HAS to be perfect to PLEASE her mother and is just plain afraid of making mistakes.  I still have to see how to ease the child's mind and at the same time keep the mother from turning the child into a basket case!  Playing the piano is supposed to be fun, especially for a young child.  Whew!!  Thanks for you input.

[lostinidlewonder]

When children express their dissapointment in their achievment or speed of learning at the piano i always say to them, does a little baby pop out of its mother and start running around the place? Of course not, that would be scary!

And a baby doesn't get impatient that it can't crawl, but then it learns how to, it doesn't start thinking, Oh I will never learn to run like everyone else so ill give up and cry. Eventually it learns to walk, but arkwardly. Piano is exactly the same, no difference. Learning to walk your fingers over 88 keys is a different new environment. Your fingers are like babies trying to crawl over an unusual world. So if you start playing the piano perfectly for me right now i will probably fall off the seat in shock and then find another student because you wont need me.

I dunno, it sounds sappy this idea, but lots of kids laugh when I talk about "running babies". But I think it does get through to them that in time you eventually learn/discover everything.

As it goes for crying, i have had lots of students on the verge of crying hehe. But then i can see that they feel that way and i try to bring down the tension, smile, be nice, tell them a story.

When they say to me, "oh this is too hard. I cant do it today!" I say, well piano practice is never easy, and when you sit with me it is only 1 hour a week! So if you can't put up with the pressure when you are with me, I can imagine how easy you must be on yourself when you are sitting here alone! A good pianist, a good businessman, a good anything, does work when they don't want to do it. That is how you get ahead and impress people.

I try to drill in to the students that they should feel uncomfortable and want to leave the piano when they are practing. This is the nature of studying music; it is a struggle of the entire "self" to memorise and produce the "right" sound out of your instrument.

I do say that they should feel this pressure when practicing, and as soon as possible learn what to do with it or they will be undisplined in their study approach. Put up with the pressure and push through it, because it only bugs you for 10 minutes or so, then after that it leaves you alone and you are in some sort of "learning zone" where you can learn closer to your potential.

That is how you learn music, or study anything else you do not know yet.  That is the cost you have to give when you want to learn. You have to push through that initial "stand up and want to leave" stage, while your brain sets itself to absorb music information, sets itself into music mode, you have to actively persist to achieve this state though.

I don't expect it this all from them, afterall i am just their teacher. I say to them if you can maintain focus when you are with me that will be good practice for your displine when you practice alone. Of course i do not expect you to be 100% focused all the time, but i do expect you to get better as time passes.
Young children are still learning how to deal with emotion, the world outside of their family. You can only be gentle and loving in your approach. If they fail to do things never get upset because children never forget. If you betray them by getting angry, they will always fear that you will get angry, even if you only did it one time!

Children need a teacher who is much more of a friend to them than a teacher, where older students need much more of a teacher than a friend. Older people have that understanding of human relationships, they can accept a teacher etc. Young kids, well they dont want to have to spend time with a teacher figure, they just always want to play and have fun. So to be smart about your teaching, teach in terms of your students own interests. That is how to be a good teacher, know the interest of yoru students and whatever you want to teach them will become absorbed/retained easier.

Teaching in terms of your studenst interests is a powerful tool. For example, I talk so much about POKEMON and YUGIO cards or whatever they are called. All my little students love them to death and when i walk into the room for the lesson that is what we talk about first. Music isn't even mentioned. Another student of mine loves talking about musical histroy, lives of the composers etc, so when i see him i always have something to talk to him about the composers and their music, even if it has no/little relationship to the music is he learning now.

Most children wont be distracted if you talk about topics which are not music during the lesson. For example, i have an 11 yr old boy who loves physics and computer games. While we practice the piano he will stop now and then and start talking about them. i let him talk bout it every time we finish a section or a parts i wanted him to do by memory. It is almost like rewarding him with a mental break every time he completes a task. Quick reward for quick work.

[Dikai]

aww... so cute... when i was young, when a lesson was over, the first thing i'd say was... "OH YEAH!!"....
but it's probably the difference in culture...
i was raised in taiwan... back then teachers/parents still believe in physical punishment....
so the end of a lesson delvered me out of my misery of the week...

[will]

I try to drill in to the students that they should feel uncomfortable and want to leave the piano when they are practing. This is the nature of studying music; it is a struggle of the entire "self" to memorise and produce the "right" sound out of your instrument.

What!? Wouldn't it be better to try to drill in to the students that they should NEVER want to leave the piano?

[puma]

I've taught little kids too and you have to remembe that they are still just kids - it is not unusual, I think, for a five year old to start crying out of nowhere.  Adults too, will cry, inexplicably, and I wouldn't be so worried unless this crying becomes a habit.  Then there might be other problems underneath the surface of things.  Like you said, she has had little time to develop relationships and understand people, so the frustration level can cause tears, for reasons other than piano itself.
    I think the idea that a teacher should be more like a friend, especially in the childhood stages, is a good idea.  I've seen it work in my teachers, and I try to do the same for my younger ones.  Candy, discussion about the latest thing, gossip (just as long as it is not malicious), rewards, or just general b.s. depending on the age/level of the child can all make the visit less painful and more fun.  Doctors who give out candies and toys (dentists too) tend to make longer lasting relationships with their children because they want to come back.  Call it bribery, call it what you will, but the association is real, strong, and productive.
   Good luck!

[timothy42b]

Just a thought.  Maybe 30 minutes isn't the right length for this particular five year old.  Maybe she needed 35.  But more likely 25, or 15.  You want to let her go while she's on a high note, not when she's tired or frustrated.  Knowing this one is a sensitive one, you might want to be extra attentive to her moods. 

[galonia]

I agree with Puma, sometimes children just cry as a reaction - I still cry when I am a little stressed, it's just a reaction and it doesn't mean I'm upset or it's anything serious.

Distractions are good - when I was teaching, there was a little girl who was very spoilt, and got irritated that I would tell her what to do, and so she started crying.  Luckily, I had a dog and she liked dogs, so I convinced her that if she did something, then the dog would be happy and come listen to her play.  Hmm... actually, my teacher still does this (I am now 25) - today at my lesson, she suddenly stopped me and said, "You have to play with more emotion - you are giving a performance!  Look, the cockatoos have come to listen to your music"  and sure enough there were a few cockatoos just landed on her windowsill to hear me play.

Although sometimes it's the parents too... there was another little girl who was so afraid of mistakes that you couldn't even suggest she play a passage a little softer or louder, or more legato, or anything at all!  She would just burst into tears.  I tried everything - explaining the process of learning, how I'm not upset at her, how it doesn't matter we all need to experiment, and I tried distractions, games, everything!  So then I told her mother, perhaps we shouldn't aim for an exam this year, it's too stressful, but the mother insisted, and I said, well, your child is leaving every lesson totally upset.  Anyway, the child sat the exam at the end of the year, got a nice grade, then the mother called me and said, "We won't learn from you anymore, you are too strict"   

[patricia1960]

lostinidlewonder - Very valuable advice!  I will find out what her interests are and work on it from there.  Thanks so much!

Puma - I use the reward system in terms of the music but I see what you mean as far as 'breaking the ice' with maybe candy or toys - it does work at doctor's visits!  Thanks!

TimR - Good thought!  It sort of crossed my mind after the lesson that maybe she would benefit with less time.  I'll approach her mother and see if she would agree to 15 or 20 minutes then we could gradually increase if needed.  Thank you!

Galonia - Distractions is a great idea as well.  I think she may be a little spoiled as well because like your student she gets irritated when I tell her what to do and she may have to repeat it just for emphasis.  I was thinking maybe a handpuppet as a distraction.  Great idea Galonia.!

Everyone thanks so much for your input.  I feel a whole lot better in how to deal with her on Friday.  I'll keep you posted!

[Bassman]

I am 15 and I have had to teach some piano also.  Little kids are really hard to deal with.  Try rewarding them with bubble gum or a small piece of choclate after each lesson, wether they do good or bad.  Tell them to try hard and no matter how many mistakes they make that they are getting better.
I'm not really good with little kids.

I had a temp. teacher for a week last summer when I was 14.  he was great.  A concert pianist, and you know how they can be. They want p to be ppp and f to be sFz!  Near the end of one of my lessons I was playing the Patitique Sonata readying it for a performance that weekend and listen to this.  HE WOULDN'T LET ME LEAVE MY LESSON UNTIL I WAS ABLE TO PLAY LOUD ENOUGH TO PUSH HIS GIANT GRAND PIANO ACROSS HIS CARPETED FLOOR. HE WOULD STAND BEHIND ME AND SHOUT, "THAT'S NOT LOUD ENOUGH, LOUDER, COME ON AT LEAST PLAY FF, CAN'T YOU PLAY ANY LOUDER.  COME ON, PUSH THAT THING OUT THE DOOR!!!!!!!!!" I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS POSSIBLE TO PLAY WITH THAT MUCH FORCE, BUT IT IS!  I did move it, about 6 inches. 

This is the constructive CRITICIZEM that I think all of us pianist could use!!!!

Sorry not much help here, but thought might give you some ideas.

-Good Luck

[whynot]

Waiting for an update!  How did the next lesson go?  Better, I hope.  I teach a lot of children, and I know a lot of screwed up parents, which I believe is your situation.  It's surprising how many nervous, stern mothers say, "I don't know WHY little Susie can't relax.  She's such a perfectionist."  Of course, they say it in front of the child.  I know who the perfectionist is.  I can't change the adults.  But I can kick them out of the studio while their children are playing, which helps tremendously.  I make a real point not to use the words right and wrong to kids like that.  Some children find that clarity helpful, but I'm talking about the ones whose lives are all about trying to get everything just right.   For them, I've had luck with the following (hope this isn't too long): 

I find something genuine to enjoy about the child's playing from the very first lessons.  "I just love hearing you play because it feels so steady," or "you already know how to make so many different sounds and moods," anything that's REAL.  Especially if it doesn't have to do with correct notes but more about good instincts or being brave, something that they don't have to strive to keep doing because they already have it.  Then, in working together, instead of saying "that's right", I say, "that's beautiful", or interesting, exciting, whatever.  Beauty is something of a judgment, but you can teach them to separate that from meaning right or perfect.  We talk about the feelings in the music and their experience while playing it.   I try to hint at things and let them come up with their own answers, rather than spelling out everything.  Anything to get them out of the passive, performing-pet syndrome.  If things really are wrong, I say, "How about...", or "Yes, now let's add one more thing:  this note can be longer" etc.  I also try to turn right and wrong into matters of taste.  For example, if they make a mistake but the piece still works (like wrong rhythm but they didn't skip any beats, or wrong voicing but right chord), I observe that they made a little change, and how I like their version better, "but let's write in your way so what you're looking at always matches what you're playing".  I mean, I'm not talking about re-writing Beethoven here, just young kids trying to get started who are already beaten down.  And every little success, I calmly say, "I knew you could do it."  I think it's better generally to be calmly cheerful in this situation, rather than rah-rah cheerleader, because their gauge of success should be (eventually) how they sound and what they're learning, rather than how excited the teacher is.  I also ask what's the worst thing that can happen when they're afraid to try a new piece (because they will be).  I take over the keyboard and pound something really horrible and ask if they think they can make a sound worse than that.  They laugh, say no, then I shrug and say, "Go for it."  I use words like bravery, courage, being bold, and taking risks.  When I play for them, I make little mistakes on purpose, I laugh, "oops!" and keep going.   

Last thing... One older girl who was completely bound up (still is a little, but much better), I finally asked one day, "What's the best compliment you can imagine after performing?  What if someone came up to you and said, 'wow, that was so NICE, you hit all  the right notes, no mistakes at all,' would that be the best thing someone could say to you?"  She just stared at me, speechless.  She bit her lip and thought, then said no.  I asked her, "What if you made a big mistake that everyone heard but someone said how moving or how exciting it was, would you like that better?"  She smiled and said yes, she'd much rather make it be special than play all the right notes.  This girl is older, but even young children can appreciate deep ideas.  For whatever it's worth...

[whynot]

How's it going?

[delpetrarca]

I cried the 1st minute my mom brought me into my 1st piano teacher's house @ age of 3... then i kept crying while i was made sitted on the bench, while the teacher took my hands for a look, while she told me I had to make the choice of learning to play or not, and while I learned do-re-mi for the 1st time in my life. I just cried non-stop...  Gee... don't know what I was thinking... haha... I ended up luving luving luving it  though=)

I think that little girl sounds lovely ^_^ better figure out if she was forced by her mom to learn...

[patricia1960]

  Good News!

Last 2 lessons went better than expected.  I took everyone suggestions to heart.  I didn't decrease the 30 mins but kept it as is (for now). I try to be a little more personable with her before the lesson begins to ease the fear/tension she has about me.

Whynot - your suggestion on "How about...", or "Yes, now let's add one more thing:  this note can be longer" etc.  I also try to turn right and wrong into matters of taste." worked wonders!

Again, everyone thank you!

[johnnypiano]

Five is very young.  She' still a baby.  I feel she should not be playing the piano but playing with the piano and that you are there to direct her attention to various aspects.  For her, it is playtime (no pun intended) at the piano with a nice person who comes along to play with her.  Remember that the attention of a five year old is like a gnat and she will easily get distracted.  If she does, follow her a certain part of the way.  Don't stop her but divert her to other things that YOU want to  teach her. She will enjoy having a certain amount of control of the situation.

Is her half hour too long?  Try 20 minutes.

I imagine the perfectionism comes from the mother.  If so, you must explain the problems of teaching someone so young and let her into what you are trying to do  Keep her fully up to date; even invite her to sit in on ten minutes of ONE lesson only.  (Unless she can be present and not interfere or show anxiety.)
 

[pianonut]

i agree with idlewonder about not making her crying an embarrassing moment, but something that she knows the teacher (you) understands.  i once had this happen and realize that my student felt comfort (i think) when i just kept talking her through her feelings (telling her similar things: it takes a long time to play the piano well--don't feel bad when you can't play something as good one day as another, etc.)  i think all of us have the experience of playing really well for ourselves and terribly for an audience or even one teacher.

Also,  she might have thought i would ask her how much practice she put in that week (with her mom nearby in the kitchen - overhearing) and get her into trouble if she answered correctly for that week's practice.  you sometimes have to think quickly and not put the student on the spot (for getting into trouble) but realize some weeks go better than others.

[Daevren]

Seems like she has to learn that she has to learn before she can do something well.

Hmm, paradox?

Maybe try to learn the child (or mother) that music is not about competition or about performing well(like most elements in life have become, this is a very american way of thinking btw no idea where you at).
She has till age 80(?), maybe even 140 who knows, to learn about piano and music. Teach about the aims of art. Creating something that is/was part of you. Thats why everyone can do art. Everyone is unique, so everyones art is potentially unique.

Hmm, I have no idea how this is possible to learn to a child of five. This seems very unpractical advice. Maybe keep this in the back of your mind(if you agree) when you teach her. And try to influence her in this fashion in the next few years. Maybe you think totally different abou art.

Also keep in mind the stress factor some shy children will have when meeting 'scary strangers'.  Maybe try to take out the seriousness. Maybe candy will work. Maybe try to shift the focus off music a bit. Or about praticing really hard. Make it a game.

The fact that you might be a tall male with a grim serious face(I am talking about myself now) in a room will alot of books and sheet music, the piano and maybe other instruments, no colour or decoration, might not make a very children-friendly atmosphere.

[edit]
*looks at Patricia1960's name*
Well, not a male then. But you get the general idea.
 



I do have to add I have no experience with this kind of situation.

Good luck.