My teacher thinks I'm on level 3, but I'm on the Beethoven Sonates.

[kilini]

Should I tell her? And how? We've had piano lessons for less than four months, but I kind of progressed on my own. Would it matter? We would finish level 3 today, and levels 4, 5, and 6 by May, hopefully. Neither am I on a deadline.

Sooo? What is your opinion?

[mound]

I keep seeing this post.. nobody is responding, perhaps for the same reason I keep hesitating to respond.

I'm not really sure if you have a question or if you are just trying to boast.

how long have you been playing? only 4 months or just 4 months with this teacher?

I'd be curious to hear recordings of your playing. If you're not communicating with your teacher, you're wasting each others time. You could be especially wasting your time if you believe you are "on to the Beethoven sonatas" when in fact your technique and musicianship are miserable.

or you could be some kind of prodigy. I have no way of knowing. why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself or post some recordings for constructive critique.

-Paul

[timothy42b]

When I started (not that long ago) I had some musical background and had done some work on my own with one of the adult beginner methods.

The teacher had me read progressively more difficult methods until she found my level.   That's where we started.  My daughter started with me, but she was given book one. 

I don't see how a teacher with any qualifications at all would be unable to tell exactly what level a student was at.  Your question does not make sense to me.

Perhaps you should clarify what you're really asking.  It is not unusual for a student to bring a piece of music to a teacher and say they really want to work on this, is that what you're trying to do?  But I'm just guessing. 

If you're learning Beethoven on your own, maybe you don't need a teacher, I dunno. 

[lostinidlewonder]

Doing grades is not always a matter of matching your ability level. I have taught kids who never done any examinations and can play grade 8. When they want to start doing exams i by no means make them go and do their 8th grade, i make them study lower grades first.

If you are doing examinations and have never done any grades before then it would be ridiculous to throw yourself into the highest level just because it matches your ability. Because you have had no experience doing music examinations it would be wise to learn easier pieces so that you can master them more readily and use them for your exam experience.

If you are not doing examinations then your teacher shouldn't be holding you back like that, I would really suggest you take your Beethoven and put it up infront of her and ask her to teach you this as well as what she wants to give you. But if you are doing examinations it would be better to stick to what the requirements are, not go off on tangents.

[kilini]

Well, I started as a complete beginner with her, and then I just went off on my own without telling her, which is why I am now hesitating to tell.

I'm not sure about the technique or musicianship, but I plan to tell my teacher this lesson. So no harm done.

[orlandopiano]

Should I tell her? And how? We've had piano lessons for less than four months, but I kind of progressed on my own. Would it matter? We would finish level 3 today, and levels 4, 5, and 6 by May, hopefully. Neither am I on a deadline.

Sooo? What is your opinion?

You need to tell your teacher so that she can accurately assess where you are. Don't hide anything. Most teachers would much rather have a student "secretly" playing harder pieces than not practicing at all. They like ambitious eager students.

I was the same way.  I started with a teacher and was on that "Music For Millions- Easy Classics To Modern" book, when I learned Bach's Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue all by myself.  I was horrified to play it for her in fear that she would get ticked off that I was keeping something from her.  But I did. and it turned out she was really impressed with me and a few weeks later we ditched that boring orange book and worked solely on serious music. 

What the worst that can happen?  Your teacher says "Great, but it's too hard for you. Now back to this Clementi...". 

[Bassman]

Youve got  to realize that your teacher I probably right in this situation. (But I am not for certian).

Just because you are playing the Beethoven Sonatas doesn't mean that you are at that high of a level yet.

Your level is really based on How quickly and efficently you can learn a piece in X amount of hours.  Also how effectively youre able to convey emotions through your playing and how expressive you can make it.

Hope this answers your question.

-Wil

[kilini]

Well, orlandopiano...

I told and she wants me to start on the Fantasie Impromptu.

I feel scared now, reading all those "it would take YEARS just to have the musical experience to play it properly"...

But Alfred still stays. Boo.

[jim_24601]

I told and she wants me to start on the Fantasie Impromptu.

Ha! That'll teach you. But you never said which Beethoven sonatas? Op. 49 no. 2, or das Hammerklavier?

[kilini]

Well, I'm hoping to take the 'teach' literally.

But after reading the Fur Elise--to FI board...

Anyway, Moonlight and Pathetique. The two famous ones. Also, please understand that 'on' means STUDYING, not playing-wonderfully-like-a-concert-pianist-or-thinking-that-I-am.

[fred smalls]

Wow! Kilini, no offence but, after four months you are learning the pathetique and the fantasy impromptu! hmmmmm.... sounds fishy......... Why don't you come to Canada and become my teacher, please!

[canardroti]

you're kidding right? I can understand playing the moonlight after 4 months but jumping from that piece to Fantasie Impromptu?? Also, do you mean the 1st movement of the Moonlight or the 3 movements of that piece? If you're able to do justice to the entire Moonlight in 4 months of lesson only,  I bow down to you.

[fred smalls]

you're kidding right? I can understand playing the moonlight after 4 months but jumping from that piece to Fantasie Impromptu?? Also, do you mean the 1st movement of the Moonlight or the 3 movements of that piece? If you're able to do justice to the entire Moonlight in 4 months of lesson only,  I bow down to you.

My view exactly, there are quite a few people who come to this site to boast!!!

[kilini]

The 1st movement. I've never laid eyes on the 3rd movement, though I have no doubt that it's hard.

I don't even LIKE the FI. I might drop it entirely and come back at a later point. Or not. Oh well.

There is no note of virtuoso talent by learning. Anyone can try to learn. I'm not trying to boast just because I have an absurd goal.

[willcowskitz]

There is no note of virtuoso talent by learning. Anyone can try to learn. I'm not trying to boast just because I have an absurd goal.

I do understand this.

But keep in mind, that when you start to forcefully tackle pieces way beyond your level, you're in danger of:

a)  Damaging yourself physically

b)  Acquiring bad technique and fingering for parts that you later find to be too slow or clumsy/inconsistent to play with the technique you developed, and changing these habits is sometimes very hard.

c)  Starting to neglect the piece you so much valued before, because of frustration from not learning to play it technically or with musical touch, and because of the number of times you've had to repeat those passages until you're totally fed up with the melody itself.


As I use to say, you need to start working on something else when you realize either a) or c) is happening. b) you will usually realize too late, which is why a teacher's guidance when working on any piece is recommended.

[kilini]

The thing is, my teacher WANTED me to start it. I didn't, really. But I have a feeling that she is not going to be much help in this. Is there anyway I can know b) is happening?

[willcowskitz]

The thing is, my teacher WANTED me to start it. I didn't, really. But I have a feeling that she is not going to be much help in this. Is there anyway I can know b) is happening?

I don't even know the piece you're referring to - I was speaking generally.

A teacher, or somebody that observes your playing and development, is really the only way to find out bad habits before you've reached that level yourself. As a beginner I've come up with insane solutions to many passages that I now consider ridiculous and so I have to re-teach my muscle memory into a whole new approach, and it most often is unnecessarily difficult.

[kilini]

The Fantaisie Impromptu. She said "Wow! I don't think even I can play it that fast!" or something to the effect. Essentially, she commented on the speed and then told me to be a nice student and go learn the other measures at home.

Anyway, I'm going to ask about bad habits and blah blah next time. She ain't no help any other way. 

But do following the fingering and feeling no pain and stopping with fatigue help?

[willcowskitz]

But do following the fingering and feeling no pain and stopping with fatigue help?

Personally I never follow the fingerings of a score, its too burdensome to think from text to finger to key, instead of just reading the notes and letting your hand decide by itself.  Only if I encounter a problematic passage, I refer to the score's fingerings.

Pain is the ultimate (well, right after permanent damage) result of physical stress, and isn't always obviously present. When one has a developed and polished technique, they're more aware of the different ways in which their hands/arms/wrists/fingers can be stressed, and more conscious of the ways to prevent any, even minor, unnecessary strain on crucial parts of their body when playing the piano. Piano is very unergonomic for the human body, which is why self-learning can be dangerous.

If you're feeling physically good playing the piece in fast tempo, and don't have to struggle with your hands and can fully concentrate on musical expression instead, then you're probably OK.

But I'd advise you ask your teacher to observe your playing more. From how you put it, it sounded like he's not paying that much attention to how you're doing it, but to how it comes out in the end.  The process of creating the sounds involves many details that cannot be examined by quick viewing, but can harm your hands or technique.

[kilini]

Wow, thanks. This made me more suspicious of the various parts. I do feel a bit tired sometimes, but that might just be various other things, such as preparing for a competition or the new SAT.

Well, I tend to be a bit more cautious and follow the fingerings. Newbie scare.

[mikeyg]

New SAT... I hate it.  On the old one I got a 1510, but the colleges won't accept it because they want the new one with the damned essay.  It's not that i am a bad writer, but i don't like doing it.

Anyways, back on topic, Fantasie Impromptu is a pretty ridiculous piece to attempt after 4 months of formal piano playing.  I've had 2.5 years, and only recently manage to tackle a mozart sonata (K332).

Perhaps you should read the breadboy thread.
https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4177.0.html
The biggest risk that I can see is that you try and try to play it for months, and then get frustrated at the piano and leave it for a while.

[maul]

Wait. So you've been playing 4 months and can play the fantasy impromptu? Quit lying bud.

[mikeyg]

Are you talking to me? 

[maul]

No I'm talking to the guy who created this topic.

[mikeyg]

Oh, allright.  Sorry for the misunderstanding

[thepiboy]

It's not a good Idea to rush grades, because you might miss the important things like, how to trill, do arpeggios, do scales and so on. When you master these, you will find most piano pieces less challenging, as you will have already encountered the technique and mastered it.

(think of the body learning how to defend a virus)

But do what you want.

[kilini]

Yes. I can play the Fantaisie Impromptu after four months.

The first two lines, that is. I can play the first page Hands Separate, though. It doesn't seem that hard, but I suspect that this experience will be considerably better if my hands were bigger. Yes, I did read about the Guy Who Wanted to Play FI After Fur Elise. I'm different from him. 'sides, I'm willing to take the risk.

Well, I can trill and do those things to a certain degree. Not sure if it can be called "master". But hey.

Oh I love the new one. Old one, I was horrible--1150. Hmm, same numbers as 1510. New one, I get 2000+ on practice tests. I thought I was a good writer, but writing the essay under demand really cracks one up. Especially when your PhD reader refuses to give anything beyond a five.

[thierry13]

Playing Fantaisie-impromptue after four months is totally possible, if you begin at age 12-13 minimum. When you begin at age 12-13, you allready developed some dexterity from previous experience, so with four months of piano playing one can do FI. I myself jumped from chopin nocturne no.20 to op.10 no.12 etude... but hell, to get it to the performance level, and play it as well as any concert pianists, is what takes the most time. I would say in two weeks one can do a hard piece to about 80-90 % of perfection... To get to 100% is what takes years. When learning a piece, allways remember that if someone plays this piece slightly better than you, then the piece you're doing is still not at 100%.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Playing Fantaisie-impromptue after four months is totally possible, if you begin at age 12-13 minimum. When you begin at age 12-13, you allready developed some dexterity from previous experience, so with four months of piano playing one can do FI. I myself jumped from chopin nocturne no.20 to op.10 no.12 etude... but hell, to get it to the performance level, and play it as well as any concert pianists, is what takes the most time. I would say in two weeks one can do a hard piece to about 80-90 % of perfection...  To get to 100% is what takes years. When learning a piece, allways remember that if someone plays this piece slightly better than you, then the piece you're doing is still not at 100%.

*sigh*

You know people are irritated by your ridiculous posts, don't you think the joke has gotten old yet?

[thierry13]

A hard piece was subjective  And I really passed from this nocturne op.20 to the op.10 no.12 etude. Don't understand me wrong, I didn't took it out and played it and wow i'm good... not at all. I had to do hard work. I would like to precise that to bring a piece to 80-90 % means : learning only the notes, not the interpretations and things like that. Learning the notes in a lot of pieces can be very short(as it can be long, i was speaking in general). The interpretation is what takes the most time and practice. That's what it was meaning.

[steinwayguy]

My view exactly, there are quite a few people who come to this site to boast!!!

New SAT... I hate it. On the old one I got a 1510

 

Personally I never follow the fingerings of a score

And that's why all of your repeated notes sound the same, ex. Fourth Ballade:
playing those four e-flats with the same finger because your hand decided itself = boring. 

[mikeyg]

No, guy, I am not boasting.  If I wass, I would have said "oh, I got the best scores in my school" and "Yea, I'm going to MIT for my senior year of High School, because i am so great".  But I didn't.  I simply told of an experience I had in response to what someone else mentioned.  What would I care about what you thought of me?  Aside from the piano, I really don't give a (d)amn what you think.  I don't like people who boast, and I am not one of them.