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Topic: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster  (Read 1895 times)

Offline skypert

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How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
on: January 09, 2022, 04:05:05 PM
I am new to piano self taught for a few months. A few weeks ago I started trying to learn Chopin ops 9 no 2 and can now play it on tempo at only 60 bpm.  Now is it worth introducing rubato now and continue without metronome or use the metronome to get faster then introduce rubato.  It is sounding pretty lifeless at the moment

Offline brogers70

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #1 on: January 09, 2022, 06:24:15 PM
I am new to piano self taught for a few months. A few weeks ago I started trying to learn Chopin ops 9 no 2 and can now play it on tempo at only 60 bpm.  Now is it worth introducing rubato now and continue without metronome or use the metronome to get faster then introduce rubato.  It is sounding pretty lifeless at the moment

If you've been learning piano for only a few months, this is a pretty difficult piece to pull off. I'd say forget about both the metronome and rubato. Play just the melody line with your right hand. Sing it as expressively as possible, then try to get your piano right hand to imitate your voice. Once you've got a clear mental image of how you want the melody to sound, try to add back the accompaniment. My guess is that it sounds "pretty lifeless at the moment" because the effort of trying to coordinate the two hands, particularly with the big jumps in the left hand, is keeping you from focusing on and producing a well-shaped melody line. You might even want to put this piece aside and work on something easier, but still lyrical, and make sure you can shape the melody well; maybe something like MacDowell's "To a Wild Rose." Or maybe the slow movement of the "easy" Mozart sonata in C major.

Offline anacrusis

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #2 on: January 09, 2022, 07:47:17 PM
Yeah, Op 9 no 2 is much harder than it looks. So the answer to how to play it faster is unfortunately just... patience. Study some easier repertoire for a while and then go back to the nocturne. It's a very challenging piece if you've only played a couple of months!

Offline swede1

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #3 on: January 09, 2022, 09:24:55 PM
Heres Pianotvs free course for Chopin waltz in A minor. Maybe can prepare you for op 9:2. The left jumping hand of chopin is tricky. If you only played for some months you probably want even easier pieces to speed up learning first and then take on Chopin. Perhaps you like burgmuller op 100.

https://pianotv-courses.teachable.com/p/chopin-waltz

Offline ranjit

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #4 on: January 10, 2022, 04:04:01 AM
Chopin op 9 no 2 is a pretty slow piece (with the exception of a few measures). If you have to speed it up, you simply don't have the technique to play it yet. If you have the technique, I would expect to be able to play it at tempo within a day at most (again with the possible exception of those few fast measures).

Offline skypert

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #5 on: January 10, 2022, 07:57:45 AM
Thank you all for your tips. Especially singing and imitating the melodic line.  You are all right when you say it is beyond me but I like having a difficult work in progress piece that I really whilst doing other pieces that are more my level like happy birthday 😞

Thanks for that video on the waltz in a minor. I like that too

Offline dogperson

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #6 on: January 10, 2022, 02:50:09 PM
Thank you all for your tips. Especially singing and imitating the melodic line.  You are all right when you say it is beyond me but I like having a difficult work in progress piece that I really whilst doing other pieces that are more my level like happy birthday 😞

Thanks for that video on the waltz in a minor. I like that too


I can appreciate having a stretch piece while working on pieces at your level.  Care needs to be taken, though, at how far you are leaping ahead.  In this case, you are level 1 and are leaping to level 9.  The importance is that you havenít yet developed the skills so that the music does sound lifeless, as your OP acknowledged.  Learning the notes and rhythm is only the beginning; the soul of music is bringing it alive.

Offline ranjit

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #7 on: January 10, 2022, 09:03:07 PM
You can play it for fun. But if you really want a stretch piece, I would suggest going for one where the primary difficulty of the piece is what you find hard. The primary difficulty in Chopin nocturne op 9 no 2 is getting the voicing, phrasing and rubato right. Instead, if you want to focus on speed, you might consider something like Schubert Impromptu op 90 no 2, Mozart K545 or the Turkish March. If you want to work on phrasing, pick something slow but hard in that respect, such as Chopin prelude op 28 no 4.

Offline chopinonions

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #8 on: February 19, 2022, 02:11:55 PM
I struggled with speed on this piece for a while; the main thing that held me back was the left hand chords being pretty complex and slowing me down. Recognizing the pattern it has and then memorizing it to the point of not thinking about it at all helped me go faster. Practice the left hand separately, and practice the right hand with the left hand in phrases to get the voicing right

Offline skypert

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #9 on: March 22, 2022, 04:53:15 PM
Well, my first recording ever of something classical.  I went back to the piece, and this is where I am at.
Tips anyone?

Offline brogers70

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #10 on: March 22, 2022, 05:20:38 PM
Much better than I had anticipated based on your posts. Quite impressive after just a year. There are some awkwardnesses with the polyrhythms and with some of the fioriture, but I'm sure you'll work those out. The main thing I'd work on though is still the line and the flow. The left hand feels a bit clunky or unshaped; you're getting the jumps accurately, which is not easy, now you might want to think of the LH as a bass line, happening on the first note of each group of three, and middle voices on 2 and 3. You could distinguish the bass from the middle just with volume, and you can try to bring out some quiet inner lines in the middle voices. I wouldn't try to bring them out by playing them louder - the middle voices should be unobtrusive - but if you just listen and pay attention to individual rising intervals in the middle voice you may give them more shape than you are now. And I'd keep working on practicing the melody alone from time to time, as expressively as possible. Good progress there, for sure.

Offline anacrusis

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #11 on: March 22, 2022, 10:16:43 PM
Good job! I think you have found a good tempo for the piece. I'd play the right hand alone a bit and really listen and think about how you want to shape the melody. Then put it together with the left hand again and try to maintain this. I read earlier in the thread that you practice it with a metronome. Try removing the metronome now and play it a bit more freely, to give it some naturalness.

Offline skypert

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #12 on: March 23, 2022, 11:21:07 AM
Thank you both.  I really value the constructive criticism.  I am so surprised with classical music since I started.  You can do so much with the same notes.  Definitely have much more respect for the musicians.  I will work on the middle voices and shaping the left hand more as I have just really been spending some time of getting the LH quieter.
Thanks, I dumped metronome and used brogers70 tips of singing out the melody. I rarely play hands separate now but from what you are both saying, there is still lots of merit to be had from still practicing hands separate at time? I will go back to it

Offline brogers70

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #13 on: March 23, 2022, 02:34:58 PM
One more thing I forgot to mention. You may have needed to count the piece in 12 while you were learning the notes, but you will get better flow if you feel it as 4 beats per bar, or even 2 longer beats per bar. I'd avoid counting it as 12 in your head, and definitely would avoid using a metronome beating 8th notes.

Offline lelle

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #14 on: March 25, 2022, 03:31:46 PM
I am so surprised with classical music since I started.  You can do so much with the same notes.  Definitely have much more respect for the musicians.

That's why classical music is so COOL  :D There is so much you can do, analyse, understand and be creative with even though you are starting from material that's written down and "set in stone".

Offline motivation

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Re: How do I play Chopin ops 9 no 2 faster
Reply #15 on: March 26, 2022, 03:39:13 PM
I am so surprised with classical music since I started.  You can do so much with the same notes.
Ha.

I'm just a novice but lovely playing there, thanks for posting it!  Could you read music before you started learning the piano?
 

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