Analysis of improvised Rocket Man intro

[electricboobs]

Elton has done the a few lovely intros here and there over the years. I've been trying to play this one a few years back and decided to re-visit what I'd tabbed and have it nearly finished now.. There are a few specific questions I have with time stamps about the bits that I'm struggling with... if anyone would like to help. I can share what I have figured out in an easy to read format if anyone else is interested.

So taking it from 0:45. I'm not sure if (for the left hand) it's as simple as G to an F to an Eb. I decided to make that Eb note into a (EbGBb) triad. And just as that Eb is played, there's an Eb melody note too, so I tried making the right do the notes (FEb).

And how exactly is the chord at 0:49 played? It sounds like [(GF)(BbD)]. But that's almost impossible to transition to from the previous melody note.

What exactly does his LH play at the end of 0:51? It sounds like an Eb octave. Something funny seems to happen at the end of 0:52... you can hear the base note move up a minor third, but yet his hand appears to move down?! So I'm hoping it's something similar to [(F#F#)+(AEb)]. What chord would that be?

What's that at the start of 0:51? Is that simply (GF) played with the RH?

[electricboobs]

I've had a listen to it again and I'm still puzzled by that chord at 0:51. I know it's similar to an Eb7, but what's the left hand doing. I presume the right hand is (GBbDbG), but just puzzled on the left hand??!

I think that chord at 0:52 must be an F#dim7. I like to play it as (F#C)(F#AEb), although I know that's not how he plays it.

[lelle]

I don't have perfect pitch, so lets hope perfect_pitch chimes in!

I'm hearing like an A? in the base? Together with what you're hearing as Eb7? Maybe? So that's just an A7 with a b5 and a b9 if I'm right.

But I might also just be terribly off.

[mad_max2024]

I could be wrong (my ear training isn't great) but I think I hear it as an Am7b5 to Ab7 to G7 and back
So I'd place the left hand as root and 7th (A-G to Ab-Gb to G-F), not sure if he's adding more in it.
The F#dim you mention would be the Ab7(b9)

[perfect_pitch]

I don't have perfect pitch, so lets hope perfect_pitch chimes in!

Awwww... I was wondering how long it was going to be before someone dobbed me in - I don't usually like Elton Johns music. I'm a Billy Joel man myself.

If I'm not mistaken, the chords at 0:51 are a c minor chord 1st inv over an A in the bass then a Ab7 over a Gb in the bass, then a B dim chord with suspended 4th (Eb resolving to D) over a G in the bass... followed by a D Major chord in 1st inversion over F# in the bass.

Everyone happy???

[slurred_beat]

Awwww... I was wondering how long it was going to be before someone dobbed me in - I don't usually like Elton Johns music. I'm a Billy Joel man myself.

If I'm not mistaken, the chords at 0:51 are a c minor chord 1st inv over an A in the bass then a Ab7 over a Gb in the bass, then a B dim chord with suspended 4th (Eb resolving to D) over a G in the bass... followed by a D Major chord in 1st inversion over F# in the bass.

Everyone happy???

Wow man how can you hear all of this??

[perfect_pitch]

What can I say - I'm a freak... I'm just that good.

To give you a taste... this is how fast I can identify notes:

Report sheet:



Wanna try yourself??? See how many you can get in a minute.

https://www.musictheory.net/exercises/ear-keyboard/99dyyybr1sbybyy

[electricboobs]

Awwww... I was wondering how long it was going to be before someone dobbed me in - I don't usually like Elton Johns music. I'm a Billy Joel man myself.

If I'm not mistaken, the chords at 0:51 are a c minor chord 1st inv over an A in the bass then a Ab7 over a Gb in the bass, then a B dim chord with suspended 4th (Eb resolving to D) over a G in the bass... followed by a D Major chord in 1st inversion over F# in the bass.

Everyone happy???

Thanks a million.

How do you think he starts that Bdim chord? I'm thinking he hardly starts it with the RH as (DFBEb). That would be quite a stretch for Elton's little hands. Does he maybe land it on it as [(GBD)(FBEb)] OR [(GD)(FBEb)]??

I think that A half dim you mention contains a 2nd inversion C min in the RH... and not a 1st. You can hear the melody descending from the G note. I should have know given that he's already played an A half dim earlier on by this point. I'm often surprised at how I don't pick up on how low some piano players play with the left hand. It always sounds too much when you hear it on your own piano. I think it's that they have the ability to hit it very softly, while slamming the right hand at the same time.

Are you sure that Ab7/F# isn't actually an F#dim7, played as [(F#)(F#ACEb)]? I think that LH note is just a single note... the F#2.

Oh, and could you confirm that I'm right in what he plays at 0:50 (just before the A half dim) is as follows?:

RH:   G     Bb  G   Bb
LH:   (GD) Bb (DF)

[perfect_pitch]

Oh, and could you confirm that I'm right in what he plays at 0:50 (just before the A half dim) is as follows?:

RH:   G     Bb  G   Bb
LH:   (GD) Bb (DF)

Nope... it's a:

RH:   G     Bb  G   Bb
LH:   (CG)       (BbG)    that leads into the A half diminished chord.

How do you think he starts that Bdim chord?

If you're talking about the chord at 0:54, then it's G & F in the bass, and just F B Eb in the RH, where the E flat is immediately followed by the D C B which makes us think it's a B dim chord, however I would call it a G7 chord with a flattened 6th (Eb) that resolves to the D straight after.

I think that A half dim you mention contains a 2nd inversion C min in the RH... and not a 1st.

I'll admit, that was after a single hearing of it and it turns out you are right. I don't know why I wrote 1st inversion when it clearly is a 2nd inversion.

Are you sure that Ab7/F# isn't actually an F#dim7, played as [(F#)(F#ACEb)]? I think that LH note is just a single note... the F#2.

Sorry... had to  - it's not often I get to have a little humour with these posts. There's DEFINITELY an A flat in the chord, and not an A natural. You'd hear the A in the RH clash with the A flat in the LH if there was one. I'd bet my reputation on that... it is absolutely not a diminished chord. There's literally a note difference between a F#dim 7 and a Ab7, so the resemblance is incredibly close... but is is NOT... and I repeat - not a diminished chord.

Again, this is after two times hearing it now... and I've also had quite a bit of scotch. Had to blow off steam after a crappy week somehow.

[electricboobs]

Nope... it's a:

RH:   G     Bb  G   Bb
LH:   (CG)       (BbG)    that leads into the A half diminished chord.

If you're talking about the chord at 0:54, then it's G & F in the bass, and just F B Eb in the RH, where the E flat is immediately followed by the D C B which makes us think it's a B dim chord, however I would call it a G7 chord with a flattened 6th (Eb) that resolves to the D straight after.

I'll admit, that was after a single hearing of it and it turns out you are right. I don't know why I wrote 1st inversion when it clearly is a 2nd inversion.

Again, this is after two times hearing it now... and I've also had quite a bit of scotch. Had to blow off steam after a crappy week somehow.

Thanks,

I don't know how much more you're willing to answer, so I'll just write out what I think I've pretty accurate, and maybe you'll make a correction or two.

From 0:36-0:38.seems to be:

(CC)(DD)(EbEb) (CC)  (CGBbC)(CAbC) F
(CG)                   (CG#) (CGBb)    F

which then leads into this thing he does from 0:39-0:40... sounds something like:

RH: (GBbEb)(FD)    (AC) F (EC)
LH:  (BbEb)    D   Bb C    Ab G

So I know what the chords are from 0:55, but I'll just write out how I think they're played so far, as I know the fingering seems weird:

 D        A  F#    | (GB)   G B| (GC)         G C|   F    Ab C  etc
(F#F#)         D  | (FF) D      | (EbEb) Eb       | (FC)

And finally, I hope I'm not too far off in saying that the last two chords - before resolving to the G min - are played as:

(GCG)(ADF#)
(DD)    F#

There's DEFINITELY an A flat in the chord, and not an A natural. You'd hear the A in the RH clash with the A flat in the LH if there was one.

I've no doubt you're right. I must listen to it again. Maybe sometimes people hear what you want to hear! In other words I'm wondering if you think it would've worked better if he actually played an F#dim7 instead ...perhaps because there's no Ab note in G minor?

Billy Joel is good, but he's not known for improv.

[anacrusis]

The way he uses the A flat to color the harmony is quite common, even if it's in g minor!

[mad_max2024]

Using F#dim as a voicing for an Ab7 with the b9 is very normal in Jazz
If it works better or not depends mostly on taste. You're better off just trying it and judging for yourself if you like it or not.

The Ab is a tritone substitution. He's reharmonizing the ii-V in G minor and replacing D7 with Ab7.

Iirc both Elton John and Billy Joel come from gospel/blues backgrounds and are very good improvisers.

[electricboobs]

Using F#dim as a voicing for an Ab7 with the b9 is very normal in Jazz
If it works better or not depends mostly on taste. You're better off just trying it and judging for yourself if you like it or not.

The Ab is a tritone substitution. He's reharmonizing the ii-V in G minor and replacing D7 with Ab7.

Iirc both Elton John and Billy Joel come from gospel/blues backgrounds and are very good improvisers.

Ah yes, the Adim to Dmaj. Didn't think of it that way.

Maybe it's a side to himself he never shows, but Joel isn't not known for improvising. But one doesn't need to have that level of comfort on the piano to perform live.

[perfect_pitch]

Thanks,

I don't know how much more you're willing to answer, so I'll just write out what I think I've pretty accurate, and maybe you'll make a correction or two.

From 0:36-0:38.seems to be:

(CC)(DD)(EbEb) (CC)  (CGBbC)(CAbC) F
(CG)                   (CG#) (CGBb)    F

which then leads into this thing he does from 0:39-0:40... sounds something like:

RH: (GBbEb)(FD)    (AC) F (EC)
LH:  (BbEb)    D   Bb C    Ab G

So I know what the chords are from 0:55, but I'll just write out how I think they're played so far, as I know the fingering seems weird:

 D        A  F#    | (GB)   G B| (GC)         G C|   F    Ab C  etc
(F#F#)         D  | (FF) D      | (EbEb) Eb       | (FC)

And finally, I hope I'm not too far off in saying that the last two chords - before resolving to the G min - are played as:

(GCG)(ADF#)
(DD)    F#

I've no doubt you're right. I must listen to it again. Maybe sometimes people hear what you want to hear! In other words I'm wondering if you think it would've worked better if he actually played an F#dim7 instead ...perhaps because there's no Ab note in G minor?

Billy Joel is good, but he's not known for improv.

Okay - from what you're written... you're close, but there are lots of missing notes to some of the chords - there aren't as many open octaves as you think. I think it's getting messy writing it out in text format. Did you ever try and write what you had in manuscript? I could probably fill in the blanks or make some corrections.

Also, a LOT of times when Billy Joel plays 'Baby grand' he does change his improvised chords in a lot of concerts... but at the same time he explored so many different genres of music - and blues is only a small part of his repertoire.

[electricboobs]

Okay - from what you're written... you're close, but there are lots of missing notes to some of the chords - there aren't as many open octaves as you think. I think it's getting messy writing it out in text format. Did you ever try and write what you had in manuscript? I could probably fill in the blanks or make some corrections.

Here's the whole intro. I forgot to add time stamps for ease of reference but you can basically pick up where we were discussing from the 5th row. Maybe you could use the Paint app to make corrections on this.

[perfect_pitch]

Ahhhhh... nuts. There really is something to be said about beautiful, quantifiable manuscript paper.

[electricboobs]

Ahhhhh... nuts. There really is something to be said about beautiful, quantifiable manuscript paper.

Ah well, that's the best I can do. It's understandable I thought.

Were you planning on making the corrections to an image of a properly written manuscript, or re-writting it yourself from my manuscript.

[j_tour]

Ahhhhh... nuts. There really is something to be said about beautiful, quantifiable manuscript paper.

That is the absolute truth.

I've played "Rocket Man" (just the version off the record, you know, just listening to it and playing along), but now I'm kind of interested to make a proper transcription using pencil and paper of this version.

There is no shortage of definitive solutions in this thread, for certain!  This is an excellent, informative thread, especially as concerns individuals' methods for transcribing.  I don't have perfect pitch:  I have to listen carefully and meticulously write things out, but, even though it's slow and somewhat tedious, I almost always get it right.

[perfect_pitch]

Ah well, that's the best I can do. It's understandable I thought.

Were you planning on making the corrections to an image of a properly written manuscript, or re-writting it yourself from my manuscript.

I can do both easily... but I'll admit, it's quicker to make corrections. It would have also been interesting to see how close you were (coming from someone who doesn't know what it's like NOT to have perfect pitch). I suspect it's like not being able to see colour... but if you were close enough, corrections would probably have sufficed.

If it was however quite wrong, then I wouldn't bother looking at yours, and just re-write it myself... it's how I do my arrangements... completely by ear with no reference sheet music.

[electricboobs]

I can do both easily... but I'll admit, it's quicker to make corrections. It would have also been interesting to see how close you were (coming from someone who doesn't know what it's like NOT to have perfect pitch). I suspect it's like not being able to see colour... but if you were close enough, corrections would probably have sufficed.

If it was however quite wrong, then I wouldn't bother looking at yours, and just re-write it myself.

So that means that you haven't looked at it?! You previously said it was pretty close. Only you mightn't like the way I write music.

Perfect pitch is a funny one. Maybe it's more like that I can see the colour but can't name it. I suspect I hear everything the same as you. For example I'd immediately know if there's even a note changed in a piece of music, but I just can't put my finger on it like you'd be able to. I'm good with following a melody (single notes), but the moment there's two or more notes played together, is the moment I'm lost... and have to start thinking. So it's kind of like as if there's two different kinds of perfect pitch in that sense.

Another random thing; I have great difficulty telling the difference between a descending minor 6th interval and a descending minor 7th! Don't know why I struggle with that basic thing so much!

[perfect_pitch]

No... no... what I meant, is that your original chord analysis near 0:50 was pretty close, but I haven't gone through the entire sheet of notes you uploaded. It's really tiring looking at music notation in that manner.

Give me a piece of manuscript and in my head and I can 'hear it' instantly without hearing it... give me a page full of letter names... I get lost easily.

To me, I think of people not having perfect pitch as greyscale because there is still the shade between black and white that people can easily identify. They know Black, white, grey, dark grey, lite grey etc... but can't put any more specific names for what they observe; whereas a person with perfect pitch knows it's red, blue, aqua etc...

I didn't mean to infer that people without perfect pitch can't identify differing notes... my apologies if you thought that's what I meant.

[electricboobs]

No... no... what I meant, is that your original chord analysis near 0:50 was pretty close, but I haven't gone through the entire sheet of notes you uploaded. It's really tiring looking at music notation in that manner.

Give me a piece of manuscript and in my head and I can 'hear it' instantly without hearing it... give me a page full of letter names... I get lost easily.

Okay, I'll do give you a piece of manuscript paper so. I'll attach an image of the sheet that I'll have wrote it on, which I assume you'll then print out and make corrections to, and then take a new photo and upload it. I don't really understand how to represent tempo, so I'll just be showing what notes are played, and anything to do with tempo should going without saying.

Can you confirm you'd be willing to look at that?