Am I skilled enough to play Appassionata 3rd movement?

[classicalstudent1]

I have learned piano for about 5 years. Some of the harder pieces I can play are moonlight sonata 3rd mov and chopin's revolutionary etude(without mistake). I thinking of trying appassionata 3rd mov, but will it be too hard for me?

[hmoll53]

Why don't you try it out and see how it goes?
Personally, I think the Appasionata is quite a bit harder than any of the Moonlight Movements and certainly more taxing than the Revolutionary. But it's different for everyone and I really can't say for sure.

[nightwindsonata]

To be honest, if you can play those pieces well I don't think the Appassionata is too much of a stretch. The technique is very similar between them.

[bwl_13]

It will likely be harder, but shouldn't be such a big stretch that you can't manage it. Give it a go

[quantum]

All three pieces deal with constant fast passage work.  However, there are some techniques in Appasionata that do not appear in the other two.  IMO Appastionata demands the most finger independence of the three pieces.  Some of the patterns look straight forward in the score, but in reality require working out at the keyboard.  Of the three pieces Appasionata is likely to feel the least pianistic, there are passages that do not sit intuitively in the hand. 

If you can play Moonlight and Revolutionary with a reasonable amount of technical solidity and musical understanding, I think Appasionata may be within reach for you.  Try it out.  If it does not sit comfortably with you now, try it again in a few years after studying more pieces to build your technique.

[jamienc]

I’ve seen a strangely high number of posts that feature discussion regarding a leap from the 3rd mvt of Moonlight right into the Appassionata. After having learned both, I’m not sure I would agree that being able to play the former would adequately prepare for the latter, but as hmoll said, everyone has different approaches and you certainly might have what it takes to play it. However, the Op 57 has tremendous musical and technical difficulties that really do require a controlled technical equipment so that the performer can deal with the myriad problems that are not as immediately obvious once you start learning it. In other words, the most challenging difficulties are not what you might think would be troublesome. If you are going to attempt to play the 3rd mvt of Op 57, here are a couple of suggestions:

1. Please do not play the movement any faster than 130 on the metronome. I’m a firm believer that Beethoven wrote exactly what he intended, and it is important to follow his direction. He’s better than all of us and I, for one, trust his judgement. He indicated “Allegro ma non troppo” for the obvious reason that any faster and wilder would steal the thunder from the last two pages. Czerny has provided us with a useful account from Beethoven’s own playing that this movement “should only very rarely be stormy.” That’s something to ponder quite a bit. Playing it cleaner will help it sound faster, which leads me to the next suggestion.

2. Think finger independence as opposed to strength. I see a lot of people here talking about the strength you need to play bigger, more difficult pieces. Absolutely incorrect. The key to playing this Sonata is the very conservation of energy that will enable you to have more effective dynamic explosions and contrasts where you need them. It will also help you to maintain that “Moto perpetuo” energy that pervades the entire movement all the while keeping your endurance tank close to full. If you tend to get tense in your wrist and are unable to monitor your body for moments where you do tense up, I’m going to have to suggest other pieces that will help you eradicate the “clawing” technique to which most people succumb when things are faster and more awkward. When I practice anything that is more rapid in tempo, I’m always conscious of my own rule that the faster the tempo, the more detached and “lighter” I must play to retain clarity and control. Almost the entire movement should be played with finger only, and by that I mean from the big knuckle down. The wrist and arm play much less of a role in this movement other than bringing the fingers to where they need to be in the constantly shifting shapes.

3. Be creative with fingerings. I always urge my students to find several other fingerings than that which are provided by the editor. Some are good, but most are not so much. You should be comfortable with the often-found need to cross 4 over 5 in both hands to facilitate awkward hand shapes. As a general rule, try to encompass as many notes as you can in one shape before the need to move. This will help keep your technique under control and your positions grounded. If you need any suggestions for fingerings, I have some excellent solutions for places like mm. 134-137, and mm. 159-164. I would be more than happy to post an image of any areas you would like to see with regards to fingerings.

4. Don’t use rubato in Beethoven to counterbalance insufficient technical ability. A good example of this occurs in mm. 64 and 65, where both hands have to make a rapid leap inward with the left hand engaging in probably one of the more technically challenging requirements of the movement. I’m talking about the third/octave tremolos that accompany the main theme through mm. 73. It is incredibly difficult in this particular area of the movement to maintain supple control over everything considering the amount of activity to make it all work. This is one of the areas of the movement where tempo can start to increase due to the inherent energy within the music, so that’s something to think about as well. I myself put just a slight bit of heaviness on each one of the bass notes before jumping with the left hand and I find that I don’t lose the momentum of the passage in doing so. In general, the ritardando in Beethoven should only be conducted when he clearly indicates that in the score.

5. Lastly, as I alluded to in the previous suggestion, it is very important to maintain the tempo and avoid any large fluctuations so that the presto can be as effective as possible. If you do any research on Beethoven and his perspective on tempo, you will find that he believed it could fluctuate, but it is nowhere near the amount of fluctuation you would find in romantic works that have become so much of a performance practice.

I hope these suggestions are helpful to you, and good luck learning the movement! If you need any other suggestions feel free to let us know!

[bwl_13]

He indicated “Allegro ma non troppo” for the obvious reason that any faster and wilder would steal the thunder from the last two pages.

I just want to emphasize this. I've heard this movement played as a near presto speed and often "con fuoco", but I think it undermines the layers present in the piece. I haven't yet studied this piece but for having played a decent amount of Beethoven I know this happens with many of his tempi. Playing either too fast or too slow.

[lelle]

I’ve seen a strangely high number of posts that feature discussion regarding a leap from the 3rd mvt of Moonlight right into the Appassionata. After having learned both, I’m not sure I would agree that being able to play the former would adequately prepare for the latter, but as hmoll said, everyone has different approaches and you certainly might have what it takes to play it. However, the Op 57 has tremendous musical and technical difficulties that really do require a controlled technical equipment so that the performer can deal with the myriad problems that are not as immediately obvious once you start learning it. In other words, the most challenging difficulties are not what you might think would be troublesome. If you are going to attempt to play the 3rd mvt of Op 57, here are a couple of suggestions:

1. Please do not play the movement any faster than 130 on the metronome. I’m a firm believer that Beethoven wrote exactly what he intended, and it is important to follow his direction. He’s better than all of us and I, for one, trust his judgement. He indicated “Allegro ma non troppo” for the obvious reason that any faster and wilder would steal the thunder from the last two pages. Czerny has provided us with a useful account from Beethoven’s own playing that this movement “should only very rarely be stormy.” That’s something to ponder quite a bit. Playing it cleaner will help it sound faster, which leads me to the next suggestion.

2. Think finger independence as opposed to strength. I see a lot of people here talking about the strength you need to play bigger, more difficult pieces. Absolutely incorrect. The key to playing this Sonata is the very conservation of energy that will enable you to have more effective dynamic explosions and contrasts where you need them. It will also help you to maintain that “Moto perpetuo” energy that pervades the entire movement all the while keeping your endurance tank close to full. If you tend to get tense in your wrist and are unable to monitor your body for moments where you do tense up, I’m going to have to suggest other pieces that will help you eradicate the “clawing” technique to which most people succumb when things are faster and more awkward. When I practice anything that is more rapid in tempo, I’m always conscious of my own rule that the faster the tempo, the more detached and “lighter” I must play to retain clarity and control. Almost the entire movement should be played with finger only, and by that I mean from the big knuckle down. The wrist and arm play much less of a role in this movement other than bringing the fingers to where they need to be in the constantly shifting shapes.

3. Be creative with fingerings. I always urge my students to find several other fingerings than that which are provided by the editor. Some are good, but most are not so much. You should be comfortable with the often-found need to cross 4 over 5 in both hands to facilitate awkward hand shapes. As a general rule, try to encompass as many notes as you can in one shape before the need to move. This will help keep your technique under control and your positions grounded. If you need any suggestions for fingerings, I have some excellent solutions for places like mm. 134-137, and mm. 159-164. I would be more than happy to post an image of any areas you would like to see with regards to fingerings.

4. Don’t use rubato in Beethoven to counterbalance insufficient technical ability. A good example of this occurs in mm. 64 and 65, where both hands have to make a rapid leap inward with the left hand engaging in probably one of the more technically challenging requirements of the movement. I’m talking about the third/octave tremolos that accompany the main theme through mm. 73. It is incredibly difficult in this particular area of the movement to maintain supple control over everything considering the amount of activity to make it all work. This is one of the areas of the movement where tempo can start to increase due to the inherent energy within the music, so that’s something to think about as well. I myself put just a slight bit of heaviness on each one of the bass notes before jumping with the left hand and I find that I don’t lose the momentum of the passage in doing so. In general, the ritardando in Beethoven should only be conducted when he clearly indicates that in the score.

5. Lastly, as I alluded to in the previous suggestion, it is very important to maintain the tempo and avoid any large fluctuations so that the presto can be as effective as possible. If you do any research on Beethoven and his perspective on tempo, you will find that he believed it could fluctuate, but it is nowhere near the amount of fluctuation you would find in romantic works that have become so much of a performance practice.

I hope these suggestions are helpful to you, and good luck learning the movement! If you need any other suggestions feel free to let us know!

Thank you for your insightful comments, especially regarding the tempo. I think this movement has an undercurrent of a gnawing worry and anxiety, and you feel that the best when the performer doesn't try to prove how fast they can play (before the coda, that is). You need to get the character right.

[galltywenallt]

I endorse the recommendation to experiment with fingerings. Personally I dislike the commonly used 1-2-3-5-4 fingering, passing the 4th finger over the 5th. I use von Bülow's excellent if unorthodox 1-2-4-3 (continuing 4-3-2-1-4-3-2-1-3-4-2 in the opening F minor but 3-4-1-3- in Gb), switching to 1-2-3-1 in the forte passages (bar 96) and the Bb minor occurrence near the start of the development. This ensures an accent on the second beat, the highest note of the phrase. With practice the leap from 4 to 3 becomes effortless. The break won't be apparent to the listener, and the semiquavers shouldn't be too legato anyway.
I found this sonata much harder than the Moonlight.