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Topic: Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Franz Schubert (A Major) (Read 4228 times)

tomp86

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Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Franz Schubert (A Major)

on: November 03, 2022, 10:45:51 AM

Hi guys Im doing another analysis and hit some road blocks again. Please don't feel obligated to help only if you have free time!

Im trying to look for the reason Schbert used A# on bar 2, 6 and 10.

Also Im not sure if my analysis of bar 15 is right. Anyone have a more likely theory?

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klavieronin

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Re: Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Fraz Schbert (A Major)

Reply #1 on: November 03, 2022, 11:47:01 AM

I believe that would be considered a chromatic accented neighbour note. It's a non-chord tone. That is, it's not actually part of the harmony but rather is used for embellishment or colour.

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lelle

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Re: Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Fraz Schbert (A Major)

Reply #2 on: November 03, 2022, 12:40:37 PM

Yes, a chromatic nonharmonic tone in the form of a neighbor tone is what's going on in line 1 and 2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonchord_tone#Chromatic_nonharmonic_tone So it's a note that's not part of the key, used for decoration. You can often find them in Mozart.

Last line it's IV (D major) all the time, see the base. The e sharp is again a chromatic nonharmonic tone, in the form of an appogiatura. So basically decoration around the F sharp which is the third of the D major chord.

Third line I would think of as something similar, but now in the harmony in the base. The A# and C# are basically appogiaturas to the B and D in the harmony of the next bar. He sort of tricks you a bit because the upbeat hints at B major like you've analyzed, and bar 10 feels like F sharp major with the 7 in the base, so he could have resolved it to B major instead of going to E major 7 again.

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tomp86

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Re: Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Fraz Schbert (A Major)

Reply #3 on: November 04, 2022, 07:26:23 AM

Quote from: lelle on November 03, 2022, 12:40:37 PM

Yes, a chromatic nonharmonic tone in the form of a neighbor tone is what's going on in line 1 and 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonchord_tone#Chromatic_nonharmonic_tone So it's a note that's not part of the key, used for decoration. You can often find them in Mozart.

Last line it's IV (D major) all the time, see the base. The e sharp is again a chromatic nonharmonic tone, in the form of an appogiatura. So basically decoration around the F sharp which is the third of the D major chord.

Third line I would think of as something similar, but now in the harmony in the base. The A# and C# are basically appogiaturas to the B and D in the harmony of the next bar. He sort of tricks you a bit because the upbeat hints at B major like you've analyzed, and bar 10 feels like F sharp major with the 7 in the base, so he could have resolved it to B major instead of going to E major 7 again.

Thanks for the answers klavieronin and lelle. You've cleared this up for me pretty good I didnt even concider chromatic passing tones during my analysis.
lelle just a couple of quick questions on your reply if thats okay. Did you distinguish the last line non harmonic as a 'appogiatura' as it was approached by a leap? Also, Your analysis of bar 10 feeling like F#7 feels right to me now that you mention it. So it could be VI7. Would you label this bar as F#7/E? Or would you label it all as V7 as its all a part of a long passing tone orchestration?

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lelle

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Re: Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Fraz Schbert (A Major)

Reply #4 on: November 04, 2022, 07:43:25 PM

Quote from: tomp86 on November 04, 2022, 07:26:23 AM

lelle just a couple of quick questions on your reply if thats okay.

It's always okay to ask!

Quote

Did you distinguish the last line non harmonic as a 'appogiatura' as it was approached by a leap?

Yes.

Quote

Also, Your analysis of bar 10 feeling like F#7 feels right to me now that you mention it. So it could be VI7. Would you label this bar as F#7/E? Or would you label it all as V7 as its all a part of a long passing tone orchestration?

I would prefer to think of it as the latter when analysing and playing. But I think you could make an argument for the former as well. But personally I look at a lot of harmony in terms of voice leading and common chord progressions. Having major chord with the 7 in the bass (F#7/E) and then NOT resolving that 7 down to the third of the corresponding tonic (B/D#) would be highly unusual.

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tomp86

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Re: Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Fraz Schbert (A Major)

Reply #5 on: November 05, 2022, 02:37:39 AM

Quote from: lelle on November 04, 2022, 07:43:25 PM

Having major chord with the 7 in the bass (F#7/E) and then NOT resolving that 7 down to the third of the corresponding tonic (B/D#) would be highly unusual.

Wow I didn't know this also. I tested this with various 7 chords with the 7th in the bass and it does always sound better if it resolved to the tonic chord with the 3rd in the bass. I guess cause the 7th on the V7 is a half step from the tonic chords 3rd?

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lelle

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Re: Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Franz Schubert (A Major)

Reply #6 on: November 07, 2022, 01:08:34 PM

Yes, the 7th of the dominant is a leading-tone to the 3rd of the tonic

It is also a dissonance to the root of the dominant (E is a dissonance together with the root F# of the F#7 chord in our example) that wants to be resolved. Of course there are examples of composers not immediately resolving dissonances, but a 7th in the bass has a very strong tendency to want to be resolved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading-tone

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tomp86

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Re: Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Franz Schubert (A Major)

Reply #7 on: November 10, 2022, 05:23:41 AM

Quote from: lelle on November 07, 2022, 01:08:34 PM

Yes, the 7th of the dominant is a leading-tone to the 3rd of the tonic It is also a dissonance to the root of the dominant (E is a dissonance together with the root F# of the F#7 chord in our example) that wants to be resolved. Of course there are examples of composers not immediately resolving dissonances, but a 7th in the bass has a very strong tendency to want to be resolved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading-tone

Thanks. Completely makes sense. You have also taught me its called a leading tone when its resolving from 1 semitone above (not just below)

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lelle

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Re: Reason for the use of A# in German Dance 2 Franz Schubert (A Major)

Reply #8 on: November 10, 2022, 02:34:33 PM

Quote from: tomp86 on November 10, 2022, 05:23:41 AM

Thanks. Completely makes sense. You have also taught me its called a leading tone when its resolving from 1 semitone above (not just below)

Cool

As I understand it the subtle distinction is that it is generally referred to as the leading tone when it's the 7th degree in the scale wanting to resolve up to the tonic (B to C in C major), and a leading tone is any tone that resolves or "leads" to a tone a semi tone up or down.

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