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Topic: Is it possible to sound like Cortot/Sofronitsky/Hambourg  (Read 1772 times)

Offline goethefan69420

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Is it possible to sound like Cortot/Sofronitsky/Hambourg
on: December 27, 2022, 01:20:45 AM
Hi.

I started late around 20 y/o. But, before this I did something that required a lot of technical/fine motor skills (more than piano arguably, and was top class in that) I am 22 now.

The hardest piece I can play well is Op 11 no 2 by scriabin, which took me around a month to learn. Which is henle level 5.

Or maybe Bach C minor prelude, but it's like 90% done.

Currently I'm learning Promenade from pictures at an exhibition, and it's going quite well, only 2 days in and have read through the whole page hands separate, and played it in octaves hands together.

I also can play a lot of stuff excerpts decently well, and I'm a decent sightreader, I would say it would take me like a week or two to learn a piece like Minuet in G by Beethoven.

I think my progress is pretty fast for my age, despite not being able to practice 6+ hours a day everyday. Some days I practice nothing, most on average though I practice 1-2 hours since I've started. Some days I will practice 8+ and I love those days, I really love practicing, and I know I can do it 8+ hours a day for months, then take a break for a few days (only doing 1-2 hours, chilling listen to music, etc.) then go back at it.

I'm going to have a good job when I am 24 as a programmer, I plan to work for 3 years while balacing piano, then going to quit my job to dedicate the next 3 yeras solely to piano with a great teacher. I want to practice for 8+ hours a day from ages 27-30, and if I am good enough by then I want to enter the 2030 chopin competition, I think it is possible to prepare the rep that is required by then, and i've also herad a lot of pianists at chopin competition who make it past the first rounds who are honestly quite bad. They can play the pieces, but they miss out on important elements in terms of dynamic, phrasing, etc. I listen very closely to others playing, and my own, but, I still am pretty bad at the moment.


I would do anything to just at any point in my life sound like Cortot, when I'm 30-50, I don't care how long it takes. The style of a pianist like Cortot or Hambourg is really what is the exact aesthetic vision I am after, and I will do anything it takes and sacrifice anything for this. I don't care, I want to set up my life in a way where I can just dedicate my life to music, and put in the time.

I read some threads though, where people say its impossible to be a concert pianist if you start late... COOL, iDC about being a concert pianist... I CARE ABOUT ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY...

SOUND WORLD, I WANT TO CREATE THE SOUND WORLD that is iny m head, I KNOW WHAT I WNAT TO SOUND LIKE, and I am willing to put in the work,but I am NOT skilled enough to do so now, and I want to achieve this.


So I am curious on what you guys think if this goal is possible, is it possible to have some recordings or interpretaions as beautiful as someone like Cortot or Sofronitsky if you dedicate the next 20 years to it?


edit: I also have expressed it is my dream to play like Cortot or Sofronitsky one day to a teacher who I know via telegram (they study at moscow conservatory), and they told me that it is possible. I do not know if they are lying or not, but, it just. makes me sad that I feel like theres a chance I can never acheive this ideal. I love musc so much and enjoy every moment, but, I am just afraid I wont be able to live in the sound world that is in my head.
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Offline keypeg

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Re: Is it possible to sound like Cortot/Sofronitsky/Hambourg
Reply #1 on: December 27, 2022, 08:07:35 PM
I'd think to sound like Cortot you'd have to know what Cortot knows, and think like Cortot.  You'd be better off developing your own sound, and sounding like you - which might still come to knowing what Cortot and the others know, and getting feedback and guidance along the way.
About Cortot in particular.  A few years ago I joined in an activity where we'd each play a different composition by a given composer.  I chose and "easy" piece that was short, repetitive, slow, and had simpler chords.  Oddly enough, this was a piece that seemed never to be played by students.  The difficulty in the piece was the fact that it was short, repetitive, slow, with a few simpler chords.  ;)  it was hard to make it expressive.  I found only three recordings, all played masterfully, each different.  Cortot was one of them.
All three pianists did something subtle with time, and that made the piece come alive.  When I tried to do the same thing, I'd get "Your pulse has become erratic.", "I can't follow your pulse.", which was a mess.  Otoh, if I went metronomic, the pulse was back, the energy pulse gives was back, but it was back to boring.  I had to give up on trying to do more, time-wise.
Recently I worked on a piece where I did manage to be expressive using time, but very subtly, in a slow and repetitive section of a piece.  I knew more, and could also hear things that I couldn't hear back then.  I may have been doing some of the things that Cortot did in that other piece.  This is what I mean in my first paragraph.
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Is it possible to sound like Cortot/Sofronitsky/Hambourg
Reply #2 on: December 28, 2022, 01:52:15 PM

It sounds like you have some ideas and goals in mind, but it might be helpful to take some time to really think through and clarify what it is you are trying to achieve. It's important to have a clear plan in place to help you stay focused and make progress towards your goals. Remember, it's okay to have big dreams and aspirations, but it's important to also be realistic and consider the practical steps you can take to make them a reality.

You base your desires on recordings where this does not fully represent how a pianist plays, it is merely a window of a moment.
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Offline goethefan69420

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Re: Is it possible to sound like Cortot/Sofronitsky/Hambourg
Reply #3 on: February 19, 2023, 05:44:55 AM
Quote from: keypeg on December 27, 2022, 08:07:35 PM
I'd think to sound like Cortot you'd have to know what Cortot knows, and think like Cortot.  You'd be better off developing your own sound, and sounding like you - which might still come to knowing what Cortot and the others know, and getting feedback and guidance along the way.
About Cortot in particular.  A few years ago I joined in an activity where we'd each play a different composition by a given composer.  I chose and "easy" piece that was short, repetitive, slow, and had simpler chords.  Oddly enough, this was a piece that seemed never to be played by students.  The difficulty in the piece was the fact that it was short, repetitive, slow, with a few simpler chords.  ;)  it was hard to make it expressive.  I found only three recordings, all played masterfully, each different.  Cortot was one of them.
All three pianists did something subtle with time, and that made the piece come alive.  When I tried to do the same thing, I'd get "Your pulse has become erratic.", "I can't follow your pulse.", which was a mess.  Otoh, if I went metronomic, the pulse was back, the energy pulse gives was back, but it was back to boring.  I had to give up on trying to do more, time-wise.
Recently I worked on a piece where I did manage to be expressive using time, but very subtly, in a slow and repetitive section of a piece.  I knew more, and could also hear things that I couldn't hear back then.  I may have been doing some of the things that Cortot did in that other piece.  This is what I mean in my first paragraph.

I've realized what i need to do now, I've been getting a lot better working on beethoven op 2 no 1, it's been going good up to first repeat now have to learn second half of piece.

i can read chopin mazurka pretty fast now too, not all but some, or sightread waltz in b minor now, and my technique is not that bad, but, i have a decent tone and I can figure out how to get it much better, they all had a golden tone.

i have to learn stuff quicker,w hich will come with tine, and experience, then i will improve my technique and tone everyday, and it will be good over time i know for a fact, as it's decent now.
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Offline geopianoincanada

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Re: Is it possible to sound like Cortot/Sofronitsky/Hambourg
Reply #4 on: February 20, 2023, 04:09:28 PM
Quote from: goethefan69420 on December 27, 2022, 01:20:45 AM
........is it possible to have some recordings or interpretaions as beautiful as someone like Cortot or Sofronitsky if you dedicate the next 20 years to it?

For me, only if I play a tape recording of their music beside me while I pretend to play (think Tom and Jerry piano scene). At my rate I'll be 130 before I can even think of approaching this.
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Offline ranjit

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Re: Is it possible to sound like Cortot/Sofronitsky/Hambourg
Reply #5 on: February 20, 2023, 10:42:10 PM
I think the best one could do is to listen carefully to recordings, and track down pianists who are from the same lineage as those pianists who know what they're talking about.
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Offline keypeg

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Re: Is it possible to sound like Cortot/Sofronitsky/Hambourg
Reply #6 on: February 21, 2023, 03:48:59 AM
Quote from: geopianoincanada on February 20, 2023, 04:09:28 PM
For me, only if I play a tape recording of their music beside me while I pretend to play (think Tom and Jerry piano scene). At my rate I'll be 130 before I can even think of approaching this.
You have read and quoted the very first post.  Have you read responses that came after that.  I actually addressed the question.
Playing a recording will not get you there.  Some of the ideas I wrote, might get you closer.
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