I have a confession to make: Chopin is probably my favorite composer in terms of having the most pieces I absolutely adore. At the same time, he has many pieces I don't particularly care for.At his worst, I feel he can be kinda corny and repetitive. For example, I feel the "Military" Polonaise in A major Op. 40 fits into this category. I feel most of the material is kind of corny and he repeats it sooo many times damn. I have similar feelings about the Polonaise Op. 26 no 2. Which is weird, because I adore the Etudes Op. 25 which were published right before it, and I consider them masterpieces.I think Chopin had some issues which managing larger forms/structures to pieces, and does better when he constructed narratives that feel quasi-improvised (see the Ballades and the Polonaise-Fantasie, for example), where he doesn't get so repetitive.Discuss. Do you agree with me?
I think Chopin had some issues which managing larger forms/structures to pieces, and does better when he constructed narratives that feel quasi-improvised (see the Ballades and the Polonaise-Fantasie, for example), where he doesn't get so repetitive.
Also, to be fair, Chopin's repetition is often forced by the ABA form, which is what he uses for all of his etudes and other pieces.
Just a couple more thoughts. Keep in mind that the format of the Military polonaise (for example) is ABA which is repetitive by nature and with the repeats he marks, it is going to be repetitive. This polonaise is NOT a larger form/structure piece.
I agree with most of your post. I adore many(most) of Chopin's pieces, but a couple of his works(especially in his early years) sound a bit like copy pasting. His Opus 2 is an exception; I think it's superior to a lot of his middle and even late works.Something I very much disagree with, though, is your thoughts on his long forms. Yes, in that regard, Chopin is inferior to the likes of Beethoven or Brahms or Rachmaninoff, but that's an extremely high bar. Despite being inferior to the masters of long forms/structures, they're still excellent pieces. His 3rd Sonata is one of my favorite piano pieces.Also, to be fair, Chopin's repetition is often forced by the ABA form, which is what he uses for all of his etudes and other pieces.
I guess I like and dislike Chopin, too. Lots of his music is beautiful and he gets all sorts of effects out of the instrument. Beautiful in a direct, sensual sort of way. And some of it has an emotional impact beyond simply being beautiful. Still, I just don't get the same complex emotional response to his music as I do to Brahms or late Beethoven, and Chopin often seems to me to be a lot of beautiful surface without so very much inside. I wouldn't take this too far, there's lots of great stuff there, but it just doesn't grab me emotionally as much as the three B's or Schubert.
Interesting take, I feel most of Chopin's music is anything but superficial decoration. That many of his pieces expose many aspects of the most vulnerable depths of the soul. Likewise, I find most of Schubert and Brahms incredibly dull I do like a lot of Beethoven though. Fascinating how differently people respond to the same things.
I find... Brahms incredibly dull
Brahms, I find interesting because of sense I get that he is often holding back, unwilling to say everything he feels; some of his late piano pieces feel like a dialogue between people who feel deeply but cannot say all that they want to say - it's the tension between what is obviously felt and what he can manage to say that I find interesting.
And for Schubert it's the mix of love of life and melody and a kind of lurking, ominous darkness (a great example being that famous bass trill early in the exposition of the last piano sonata).
If you find Brahms dull then you don't know ball music. Simple as. The violin concerto alone is enough to cement his immortality in classical music.It's normal not to like 100% of an artist's works. The mid-period polonaises (op. 26 to op. 40) are definitely works on the weaker side. I'm a bit of a Chopin fanatic and I'm pretty sure I haven't listened to op. 40 in over half a decade. Though op. 22, op. 44, and op. 61 more than enough makes up for it.I think Chopin struggled more so with traditional/classical structures than with large scale forms. I think that was a sign of a talent ripe with originality being restrained by tradition; once he abandoned all pretenses to adhering to classical structures and composition is when he truly started to flourish - to the point where he improved on forms (the sonata form with the ballades, the emotional and technical scope of nocturnes, motivic development in his sonatas and ballades). You mention the "quasi-improvisational" trait in his ballades but also take note that he usually spent years working on a single work: he spent 4 years working on the first ballade for example. His ability to meticulously compose works whilst simultaneously making them sound improvised is unrivalled amongst his contemporaries.
I'm sure there are some Brahms pieces I like But most of them are on the shorter side. I once went to a concert with three of his chamber pieces in a row. Never again.I think you made a good point with him struggling with traditional structures rather than large forms.
I must say I do agree. My favourite works would have to be the second and fourth ballades, the Op55№2 nocturne, the first scherzo and the third sonata. Meanwhile, everyone loves the Barcarolle, first nocturne of the Op55 set and the famous Eb nocturne, which doesn't really spark much of my interest.
I love all of those works except the Barcarolle, third sonata and first scherzo, which I merely like First Scherzo suffers from the repetition problem I was talking about. Could have done with a few less verbatim repeats of the exposition material.
Just a couple more thoughts. Keep in mind that the format of the Military polonaise (for example) is ABA which is repetitive by nature and with the repeats he marks, it is going to be repetitive. This polonaise is NOT a larger form/structure piece.Also, look at his piano sonata #3. The first mvt is in strict sonata allegro form and lasts about 14 minutes when the exposition is repeated. This is a larger form structure. This movement is very successful IMO and is not overly repetitive in any way. In fact, he skips the 1st theme in the recapitulation.EDIT:Just reread your original post. You feel that the Military polonaise sounds corny. So it appears that this is the problem rather than the repetition? I feel that Grieg's piano concerto sounds corny in places. Something in my past must have made me feel that way. But I am able to "reboot" my brain in a way that I can overcome this and enjoy the concerto. No problem if you feel this way about that polonaise. I guess I'm lucky in that I don't feel that way. I hear rich, massive chords - or as described elsewhere about Arthur Rubinstein's feelings about this piece - "Its exuberant trills and heroic octaves do indeed evoke the fanfare that might accompany a triumphant army. It’s often observed that this polonaise is unique in Chopin’s oeuvre in that it completely avoids dynamic contrast. Chopin marked his score Allegro con brio, energico and fortissimo; he intended it to be played very loud, very fast, and with great verve, all of which are present in Rubinstein’s stirring performance.was Chopin’s A major “Military” Polonaise. In the early years of the occupation all of Chopin’s music was officially banned from the airwaves, but this Polonaise nevertheless became a fixture of Polish radio, serving as the “Signal of Warsaw” that began each broadcast. The A major Polonaise held a special, and deeply personal, meaning for Arthur Rubinstein, whose performance was chosen by the Librarian of Congress for its National Recording Registry as the iconic reading of this revered work. In his memoir, Rubinstein wrote that “speaking of Chopin’s music is for me like confessing my greatest love.” Born in 1887 to a Jewish family in the Polish city of Łodź, which was then still part of the Russian Empire, for Rubinstein hearing Chopin’s music was “like coming home.” In 1939, while vacationing in the French seaside resort of Deauville, he learned in a radio broadcast that his homeland had fallen to the Nazis; what immediately followed the message that Warsaw had been bombed by the German air force. was Chopin’s A major “Military” Polonaise. In the early years of the occupation all of Chopin’s music was officially banned from the airwaves, but this Polonaise nevertheless became a fixture of Polish radio, serving as the “Signal of Warsaw” that began each broadcast."In my case, I listened to all the Chopin polonaises when I was about 10 years old in a wonderful recording by Alexander Brailowsky recoded around 1964. I loved ALL of the 6 mature polonaises on the album but did not like nearly as much the 3 op. 71 polonaises on the album that were written when Chopin was about 15-18 years old.
I have a confession to make: Chopin is probably my favorite composer in terms of having the most pieces I absolutely adore. At the same time, he has many pieces I don't particularly care for.
1) Are there any composers who have not written any pieces you do not particularly care for?2) Some pieces are not as bad as they tend to be performed, even by great pianists.
Topic: Confession: I both like and don't like Chopin 