Piano Forum

Print

Pages: [1] Go Down

Topic: Thumb tack touch (Read 3635 times)

dorihunt

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 17

Thumb tack touch

on: January 29, 2023, 01:58:17 AM

I am learning Chopin Etude Op.25, No.1 (Etude in A flat Major). My teacher was describing the thumb tack touch for producing the Campanella like sound of the uppermost treble clef notes. Has anyone heard of this technique/touch?

Logged

keypeg

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 3922

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #1 on: January 29, 2023, 09:00:17 AM

Ouch?

Logged

brogers70

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1756

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #2 on: January 29, 2023, 12:07:22 PM

Never heard of it, but I'm guessing the idea is that your finger rebounds from the key the way someone rebounds from a chair if they've sat down on a thumb tack.

Logged

keypeg

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 3922

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #3 on: January 29, 2023, 03:22:00 PM

Ok, my humour got the better of me yesterday with the "ouch" comment. I did get the probable intent - a set of quick, light bounce off the keys as if there were thumb tacks. That is sort of how one would play to get that kind of sound ..... sort of. I don't like the imagery because personally, if I'm told to imagine something, I imagine all of it. I'd imagine the pain or fear of pain that comes with bouncing sensitive fingertips off of thumb tacks. My hands would hold back and tense up and recoil, part of my going toward pushing the keys, part of me pulling back - there is an emotion or feeling associated with poking thumb tacks. That is probably also why I wrote "ouch".

Find out what kind of touch / movement you need, experiment with that. Use your ears and listen to your body as you experiment. The "thumb tack" idea is a starter to bring you there, clumsy as the imagery might have been expressed.

Logged

dorihunt

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 17

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #4 on: January 29, 2023, 06:11:18 PM

Thank you everyone! I didn’t have a clue what he meant…so this helps me figure it out. I couldn’t figure out how I was going to push in a thumb tack with light quick pressure! Now I get it…kind of like a hot potato touch!

Logged

lelle

PS Gold Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2506

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #5 on: January 29, 2023, 10:51:15 PM

Sorry if this sounds blunt, but it's not your job to figure out this type of thing on your own. If your teacher's teaching method is based on them being incapable of explaining what you need to do properly, instead giving you a bunch of vague, cryptic statements, your teacher isn't very good, and you may progress faster with another one.

Logged

keypeg

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 3922

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #6 on: January 30, 2023, 10:09:32 PM

Quote from: lelle on January 29, 2023, 10:51:15 PM

Sorry if this sounds blunt, but it's not your job to figure out this type of thing on your own. If your teacher's teaching method is based on them being incapable of explaining what you need to do properly, instead giving you a bunch of vague, cryptic statements, your teacher isn't very good, and you may progress faster with another one.

This seems premature as we know almost nothing here. We have an imagery used by the teacher and that's it. Not how the teaching usually goes, whether the teacher demonstrated anything. One thing I'd suggest as a student is to say "I don't understand. Can you explain it to me? / Can you show me?" Good teachers want to know if something hasn't been understood. It is not seen rude to ask, nor does it make you appear stupid if you ask. To the contrary.

Logged

lelle

PS Gold Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2506

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #7 on: January 30, 2023, 10:47:37 PM

Quote from: keypeg on January 30, 2023, 10:09:32 PM

This seems premature as we know almost nothing here. We have an imagery used by the teacher and that's it. Not how the teaching usually goes, whether the teacher demonstrated anything. One thing I'd suggest as a student is to say "I don't understand. Can you explain it to me? / Can you show me?" Good teachers want to know if something hasn't been understood. It is not seen rude to ask, nor does it make you appear stupid if you ask. To the contrary.

Fair point, I'll take that back until we know more. I think I let some old resentments around teachers giving vague instructions and expecting the student (i.e. me) to just know what is needed slip through

Logged

keypeg

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 3922

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #8 on: January 31, 2023, 03:54:49 AM

Quote from: lelle on January 30, 2023, 10:47:37 PM

Fair point, I'll take that back until we know more. I think I let some old resentments around teachers giving vague instructions and expecting the student (i.e. me) to just know what is needed slip through

I can identify with your point of resentment, and have a few more of my own.

Logged

quantum

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 6260

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #9 on: January 31, 2023, 04:22:06 AM

Quote from: lelle on January 29, 2023, 10:51:15 PM

Sorry if this sounds blunt, but it's not your job to figure out this type of thing on your own. If your teacher's teaching method is based on them being incapable of explaining what you need to do properly, instead giving you a bunch of vague, cryptic statements, your teacher isn't very good, and you may progress faster with another one.

It is worth noting, that there are some cultures that frown upon questioning the teacher. In such cultures, the teachers word may be perceived as law. A student from such culture may be hesitant to ask. Nonetheless, you do present notable concerns.

I recall a teacher telling me about an experience. He was delivering a guest lecture in another country to university students, and was trying to get the students engaged in a discussion on the lecture topic. However, the entire class remained politely silent and resisted open debate on the topic.

Logged

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

lelle

PS Gold Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2506

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #10 on: February 05, 2023, 02:09:14 PM

Quote from: quantum on January 31, 2023, 04:22:06 AM

It is worth noting, that there are some cultures that frown upon questioning the teacher. In such cultures, the teachers word may be perceived as law. A student from such culture may be hesitant to ask. Nonetheless, you do present notable concerns.

I recall a teacher telling me about an experience. He was delivering a guest lecture in another country to university students, and was trying to get the students engaged in a discussion on the lecture topic. However, the entire class remained politely silent and resisted open debate on the topic.

I get that. I personally have zero patience for authorities whose egos cannot handle being questioned. I feel that part of being an authority is that you are knowledgeable enough to 1) be able to answer questions and satisfactorily answer attempts to (respectfully) pick apart what you are teaching and 2) be open to the fact that you don't know everything and that critiscism of what you're peddling might be legitimate. Questions and challenges to what you're saying needs to be welcome, encouraged even - but presented in a constructive, respectful manner, of course.

Logged

quantum

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 6260

Re: Thumb tack touch

Reply #11 on: February 12, 2023, 05:37:00 AM

Quote from: lelle on February 05, 2023, 02:09:14 PM

I personally have zero patience for authorities whose egos cannot handle being questioned. I feel that part of being an authority is that you are knowledgeable enough to 1) be able to answer questions and satisfactorily answer attempts to (respectfully) pick apart what you are teaching and 2) be open to the fact that you don't know everything and that critiscism of what you're peddling might be legitimate. Questions and challenges to what you're saying needs to be welcome, encouraged even - but presented in a constructive, respectful manner, of course.

We are likely on the same page.

IMO the level of authority a given person has is proportional to the level of scrutiny by third parties such individual should expect. Third party vetting is an essential part of a healthy authority structure, as it creates checks and balances. I think it is the duty of a student to question everything they are taught, and place teachings and ideas presented to them under unrelenting scrutiny and investigation. If and only if the ideas pass the tests of intense examination, should the student consider implementing the ideas for themselves.

Teaching needs to be about the progression of knowledge which benefits the whole community, not the ego of the individual teacher or the sentimental attachment to a teaching tradition.

Logged

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Sign-up to post reply

Print

Pages: [1] Go Up

For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
“Piano Dreams” - Exploring the Chinese Piano Explosion

The motivations for learning the piano are diverse, ranging from personal enjoyment to cultural appreciation and professional aspirations. While some see it as a way to connect with cultural heritage, others pursue it as a path to fame and fortune. In the movie “Piano Dreams” director Gary Lennon documents the struggles and sacrifices of three wannabe piano stars in modern China. Read more

SMF 2.0.19 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines