Piano Forum

If the Fantasy was going to give me anxiety about anything, it would be jumps...

The Schumann Op 17 fantasie is a MASTERPIECE!  I post below a fine performance.  IMO, the 2nd movement opening has all the majesty found in the opening of Wagner’s Die Meistersinger overture, especially measures 8-16, with its walking diatonic bass line.
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I think this is a very weak argument and branches over into cod psychology. Wagner was without any doubt whatsoever a thoroughly obnoxious human being and imo, for what's that's worth, he is the second greatest composer of all time, after Beethoven. Schumann certainly did some bad things (by modern standards his relationship with Clara included statutory rape) but Wagner and Gesualdo probably have the edge here 

Yes – but did Wagner attack your heroes Alkan and Thalberg?  At an early age, I can guarantee that you did not hate all of Schumann’s music.  At some point, he started going south in your mind.  It is tough to do, but you may want to retrace the decline of Schumann as a composer in your mind as time passed.  Were you reading about Schumann during this decline?  If yes, an intellectually honest person would at least consider the possibility and even probability that this had a subconscious influence on your view of his music – especially if he is attacking your heroes!!!

You see how your friend Thalbergmad hates Schumann as a person because Schumann attacked his heroes Dreyschock and Thalberg.  I applaud Thalbergmad for this intellectually honest admission.  But Thalbernmad fails to realize that this hatred of Schumann as a person would undoubtedly play some role in his hating Schumann the composer.  The hatred of Schumann as a person becomes very clear when Thalbergmad says he hates EVERY composition of Schumann.  This is impossible unless you hate classical music in general or you hate Schumann the person.  For example, had Schumann hailed the greatness of Dreyschock and Thalberg throughout his life, I’ll bet Thalbergmad would have a different view of Schumann’s music.  As it turns out, Dreyschock and Thalberg were second rate composers – Schumann was correct in his negative view of these 2.  His nasty statements were probably in line with how music critics gave their opinions back in those days. 

If people want to listen to his musical sludge, that's their problem, not mine. I'm not motivated to become supreme dictator, so I don't see the admittedly tempting scenario of his excision from music history coming to fruition and I'll have to settle for excising him from my hard drive and other equivalents of blocking him on social media

This is the problem – are you still slightly exaggerating for comic effect here when you say “admittedly tempting scenario”?  How can we tell if you are kidding or being serious?  Maybe put one of these  next to the kidding statements.  I ask that you put your imagination hat on now:  If you were dictator today, would you be able to resist your temptation to ban any or all of Schumann’s music?

It's fairly obvious that any such artistic commentary is always opinion and whether it is factual is the thing up for debate. I don't see how the merits or demerits of my concerto have anything *at all* to do with the standing of the Schumann one, a piece which I find contrary to all my aesthetic, formal and dramatical principles. And for the record, yes I do believe it (especially the third movement) superior to the Schumann, and I simultaneously am sure that I'll be in a 1% grouping with that belief - these two stances are not mutually exclusive, btw. I thought the Schumann concerto was awful long before I wrote mine, btw...

Do you ever consider the possibility that you may have what I term as a “partial tin ear”?  What is a partial tin ear?  A person that has a “sensitive ear” to some music judged to be great by history, but has a “tin ear” to the remaining great music as judged by history.  I AM LOOKING FOR A YES OR NO ANSWER TO THE FOLLOWING QUESTION THAT YOU MISSED: Do you believe you have a superior opinion on Schumann’s piano concerto compared to the opinions of all the great musicians in history that have determined this work to be a great work? (Yes/No)

I think Brahms is a much greater composer than Schumann, in fact I'm almost certainly on record somewhere stating that his piano concerti are top ten ones imo.

Wonderful!  I view his 2nd concerto to be the true masterpiece of the 2.  His piano concerto #1 has some issues for me.  He starts off with an explosive B-flat major chord in first inversion accompanied by a thunderous timpani roll – one of the most powerful passages in all of music – inspired by Schumann’s leap into the Rhine River.  His inspiration was the D major first inversion chord in the recapitulation of the 1st movement of Beethoven’s 9th symphony (not in the expected d-minor key) that was also accompanied by a thunderous timpani roll.  After this breathtaking start by Brahms – it would be impossible to maintain this greatness throughout the work at his very early age.  Still a fine work – I just personally have issues with it. 

Another perhaps equally powerful passage by Brahms that is a fully successful work – the point where the violin makes his entrance in the first movement of the D major violin concerto.........  After the first couple minutes - All of a sudden, the orchestra turns from D major to D minor with dotted rhythms  then the violin comes in the key of D minor in such a terrifying, powerful way, I still am afraid when I hear it today!

Now I must continue my journey elsewhere.  Back in September.  I am prepared to read without comment some outrageous posts from Visitor, Rachmaninoffforever (or whatever his name is), Thalbergmad, Mjames, et al.  I just wasn’t prepared to hear such things from Ronde.  I’ll discuss when I return.