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Topic: Grammar Question  (Read 6752 times)

Offline shoenberg3

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Grammar Question
on: February 17, 2005, 08:32:24 AM
What is right?
Only if enough viewers OBJECT to what may call "the vast wasteland of television" would the qualitiy of programming become acceptable.

Or

Only if enough viewers OBJECTED to what may call "the vast ........ acceptable.

And why?

Thanks in advance 8)
generally working on:
Bach Toccata in g minor
Rachmaninoff 3rd Concerto

Offline bernhard

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #1 on: February 17, 2005, 09:04:39 AM
Now both are correct. :)

Only if enough viewers OBJECT to what [one] may call "the vast wasteland of television" WILL the quality of programming become acceptable.

Only if enough viewers OBJECTED to what [one]may call "the vast wasteland of television" WOULD the qualitiy of programming become acceptable.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline shoenberg3

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #2 on: February 17, 2005, 09:11:06 AM
Thanks Bernhard,
So, my little SAT book was wrong!

It read that "only if enough viewers object to what many call..........would the quality of programming become accpetable" was correct, in fact when it should be "viewers objected...."


generally working on:
Bach Toccata in g minor
Rachmaninoff 3rd Concerto

Offline bernhard

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #3 on: February 17, 2005, 09:16:09 AM
Bear in mind that:

1. I am not a native speaker. :-\

2. Language is created to confuse the non-natives. (it is a way for a group to communicate while leaving the others out - that is why language is full of idiossincracies and why there are so many different languages ;D).

3. So, who knows, maybe your book is right. ???

4. Then again it may be a typo. ::)

5. In short: get a second opinion. ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline shoenberg3

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #4 on: February 17, 2005, 09:21:35 AM
Thanks anyways 8)
generally working on:
Bach Toccata in g minor
Rachmaninoff 3rd Concerto

Offline athykay

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #5 on: February 17, 2005, 02:24:21 PM
I'd agree with Bernhard.  I think the "would" needs the past tense in "objected" while "will"  which supposes a future event would need the "object" implying a future event.

This is just my gut, common sense reading and I can't back it up beyond that.


I think you should submit it to the Court of Peeves. ;)

https://www.uexpress.com/coveringthecourts/?uc_full_date=20031012
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Offline musik_man

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #6 on: February 17, 2005, 04:34:25 PM
Quote
Only if enough viewers OBJECT to what may call "the vast wasteland of television" would the qualitiy of programming become acceptable.

Isn't this also missing a comma after "television"?
/)_/)
(^.^)
((__))o

Offline janice

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #7 on: February 17, 2005, 04:48:03 PM
Now both are correct. :)

Only if enough viewers OBJECT to what [one] may call "the vast wasteland of television" WILL the quality of programming become acceptable.

Only if enough viewers OBJECTED to what [one]may call "the vast wasteland of television" WOULD the qualitiy of programming become acceptable.

Yes, Bernhard is correct here, I believe, because in the first sentence, both verbs are the same tense (present) and in his second sentence, both are the same (past tense).

BUT.........and I am lovingly correcting Bernie here:

you spelled idiosyncracies wrong! ;) :)  ;D
Quote
2. Language is created to confuse the non-natives. (it is a way for a group to communicate while leaving the others out - that is why language is full of idiossincracies and why there are so many different languages ).
 
Co-president of the Bernhard fan club!

Offline xvimbi

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #8 on: February 17, 2005, 05:20:45 PM
I think the second sentence is wrong, and the first is correct. I consulted with my "Personal Languish Advisors", and that's what they said.

However, they concede that people colloquially use the construct in the first sample a lot, but according to grammar rules, it is not correct.

Offline Floristan

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #9 on: February 17, 2005, 06:08:32 PM
This is not an event that is definitely going to happen (future tense), but an event that is conjectural in nature.  The condition is stated in the present tense because it is a statement of a factual condition (and not a subjunctive condition, as the past tense would suggest).

"If X IS true, then Y would happen" means if the condition is met, then there is a probability that Y happens.  As opposed to "If X IS true, then Y WILL happen," which asserts certainty about the event that results from the satisfaction of the condition.  While we routinely assert that if X is true, Y will happen, this construction can only properly be used to assert known caus and effect relationships, e.g., "If I hold my finger in the candle flame long enough, my finger will be burned."  It's irrefutable.  But when the effect is debatable, use of a conditional helper verb is, technically, more appropriate, e.g., "If George Bush starts reading the newspaper, he would be more informed."  Not "will."  We don't know that.  ;)

So...

Only if viewers OBJECT to what many call "the vast wasteland of television" WOULD the quality of programming become acceptable.

Just my opinion on a day when I'm studiously avoiding a really boring but intense workload!

Offline athykay

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #10 on: February 17, 2005, 06:59:32 PM


Just my opinion on a day when I'm studiously avoiding a really boring but intense workload!

You too, huh? :-[

Sign me,

Mistress of avoidance (or was that ADD?)
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Offline jgoo

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #11 on: February 17, 2005, 11:51:42 PM
And never forget:

"Could" is the past tense of "can"
"Would is the past tense of "will"
"Might" is the past tense of "may"
"Should" is the past tense of "shall"

Offline shoenberg3

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #12 on: February 18, 2005, 12:29:17 AM
Thanks everyone :D
generally working on:
Bach Toccata in g minor
Rachmaninoff 3rd Concerto

Offline Floristan

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #13 on: February 18, 2005, 01:13:05 AM


You too, huh? :-[

Sign me,

Mistress of avoidance (or was that ADD?)


 ;D ;D ;D

Offline Floristan

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #14 on: February 18, 2005, 04:00:16 PM
OK, just because I'm an English grammar junkie, I found a pretty definitive set of examples of conditional statements on the Internet.  Look at the 5 examples at the bottom of the page.:

https://www.usingenglish.com/articles/english-conditionals.html

As it shows, the verb tense used in each clause is related to the degree of probability of the event happening as a result of the condition.  The third example, which illustrates a situation of "unlikely" probability, answers the SAT question above.  Although this is absolutely correct usage, it is NOT common usage.  It is exactly the sort of thing the SAT exam creators tend to go after, to see how detail-obsessed you are!  :P



Offline xvimbi

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #15 on: February 19, 2005, 04:32:13 PM
Just to make things more complicated: the well-known phrase "If I were a rich man..." is wrong, too. Provided there is no subjunctive mood, the correct way would be "If I be a rich man". So, the "object" in the example above is actually an infinitive.

"If I think this is true..."
"If you think this is true..."
"If he think this is true..."

But who speaketh like this anymore?

BTW, well-done Floristan, that was the most concise and clear explanation I have ever seen. Seriously!  :D

Offline aquariuswb

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #16 on: February 19, 2005, 06:59:16 PM
Just to make things more complicated: the well-known phrase "If I were a rich man..." is wrong, too. Provided there is no subjunctive mood, the correct way would be "If I be a rich man". So, the "object" in the example above is actually an infinitive.

This shocks me, actually! How sure are you about this? -- It's not that I don't believe you if you are certain, it just greatly surprises me! Thanks for the info.

Hmmm... Technically, then, would it be right or wrong to start a sentence with the phrase:

"Were I a rich man, ..." ?

This is a cool topic.
Favorite pianists include Pollini, Casadesus, Mendl (from the Vienna Piano Trio), Hungerford, Gilels, Argerich, Iturbi, Horowitz, Kempff, and I suppose Barenboim (gotta love the CSO). Too many others.

Offline xvimbi

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Re: Grammar Question
Reply #17 on: February 19, 2005, 10:05:28 PM
Just to make things more complicated: the well-known phrase "If I were a rich man..." is wrong, too. Provided there is no subjunctive mood, the correct way would be "If I be a rich man". So, the "object" in the example above is actually an infinitive.

"If I think this is true..."
"If you think this is true..."
"If he think this is true..."

Actually, I should have said "Provided there is a subjunctive mood ..."

I ust found this website that explains it:

https://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html
For more information about this topic, click search below!

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