Piano Forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Topic: Treble vs Bass Clef for notes. E.g. Gymnopédie No.1  (Read 1736 times)

Offline lettersquash

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Treble vs Bass Clef for notes. E.g. Gymnopédie No.1
on: August 16, 2023, 08:20:55 PM
Hi,
A friend is learning Gymnopédie no.1, and noticed that there are versions with the chord notes either on the treble or bass clef. He says, "Check out the different ways measures 9 through 11 are notated.  It's interesting because the treble note is F# and the top note in the bass chord is too.  The first example is the one I have been using where the chord is completely on the bass."

I've attached the following from his email:
image.png - bass notes and chords in lower staff, bass clef
image1.png - chords split
image2.png - chords in treble

He doesn't ask a specific question, and want's to discuss it on a zoom chat at some point, but he ends by saying: "I looked at several YouTube videos and see that indeed the hand assignment varies among different musicians."

So, I'm guessing he's asking if the choice of top or bottom staff is just to tell the pianist (for this arrangement) how the arrangement is to played, i.e. using which hand (top=R; bottom=L), but I'm pretty sure this isn't the case (from earlier discussion here and because in the last image, bar 13 and 14 would be unplayable, with the octave stretch of F#s and lower notes, and that these choices are about accommodating the notes with fewer ledger lines for easier reading, leaving hand choice to the player).

Anyway, I'm open to any thoughts you might have about this so that I can help him. Yes, I have suggested he joins pianostreet, and yes, I really am "asking for a friend". ;D

I have another observation, which is that curious feature of a held note in one voice, yet re-played in another. I suppose the pianist is meant to release the key for as short a time as possible (to honour the held note, yet strike it again). Use of the sustain pedal might alter that - longer release time won't be noticed.

I assume that his version is a simplified one, with two of the voices combined, such that the bass note is nominally a crotchet rather than being held for the full bar. Is that right? Presumably one is meant to hold the bass notes. I'm not sure which, if any, of these is Satie's.

Thanks
Logged
Sorry if I don't reply for a while - I'm not getting notifications from this site.
Sign up for a Piano Street membership to download this piano score.
Sign up for FREE! >>

Offline lelle

  • PS Gold Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2506
Re: Treble vs Bass Clef for notes. E.g. Gymnopédie No.1
Reply #1 on: August 16, 2023, 09:27:39 PM
Notation is an interesting thing, because it varies between composers how they approach it. On one end, the notation acts as an instruction manual for which keys to press with what hand. On the other end, notation acts as an instruction manual for what musical results the composer wants you to achieve, and the hand distribution (or whatever else may be needed to create the effect indicated by how the score is notated) is up to the musician. Context and experience will help the pianist determine which of the two approaches the composer has taken (or if it's a mix!).

For example, the upper staff and the lower staff are not necessarily assigned to the right hand and the left hand respectively. Look at some of Bach's fugues, for example - you'll often have to employ creative hand distributions, and the upper and lower staff is treated more like a convenient canvas on which you can put notes that belong to the higher and the lower registers of the keyboard respectively. Some late romantic composers also use this approach.

Quote
I have another observation, which is that curious feature of a held note in one voice, yet re-played in another. I suppose the pianist is meant to release the key for as short a time as possible (to honour the held note, yet strike it again). Use of the sustain pedal might alter that - longer release time won't be noticed.

This is another example of where the notation approach is "instruction manual for the intended musical result". Obviously, you can't hold the long note in the melody and at the same time restrike it when playing the chords. But he is showing you that he wants the melody note to be really long here (let's say a flute played it, the note would be held for its full duration), and it's up to you to create the illusion that that is what is happening in whatever way you can, even though you are restriking the note in another voice.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert