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Topic: Pedal Interpretation (Read 1695 times)

pressingkeystoodifficult0

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Im a Piano Student from Germany. Apart from my Piano teacher there isnt really anyone else i can ask. Currently i'm playing a piece from Debussy (Jardins sous la pluie). Even though there isnt a Pedal written in the notes, my Piano teacher told me that onwards the romantic era theres always a pedal. Is it true? And If it is how do i know when to use the Pedal?

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keypeg

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Re: Pedal Interpretation

Reply #1 on: August 21, 2023, 03:08:56 AM

Your teacher should be teaching you how to use pedal. Has that occurred in any capacity yet?

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keypeg

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Re: Pedal Interpretation

Reply #2 on: August 21, 2023, 01:22:32 PM

Longer answer now that I have more time.

Your teacher's statement might be true: hadn't thought of it. The bigger thing however is knowing when and how to use pedal. Since you refer to pedal not being written in the notes, it seems that you have played music where pedal has been written in. Therefore you probably know how to pedal in order to get clean results for basic pedaling, when marked in the score. Figuring out when to pedal is what I think you've not been told yet. (?)

For the most basic pedal, you change pedal when the harmony changes. If the underlying harmony was a C major chord, and now everything is over a Dm chord, that would sound ugly unless you pedal. If your music is just chords and arpeggios, that's an easy take. If you also have a melody with non-chord notes, then you don't want the melody notes to wash together. Understand the music: know what kinds of effects you want to have: experiment with pedal.

I'm working on a Debussy right now. Mostly I'm making my own pedal choices because I've learned a great deal about that already. But my teacher is also giving suggestions or discussing choices, because he knows more than I do, and understands the music more than I do.

Pedal is a powerful tool that does all kinds of things.

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kosulin

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Re: Pedal Interpretation

Reply #3 on: August 22, 2023, 01:23:55 AM

Banowetz has a chapter devoted to padaling in Debussy.

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Vlad

lelle

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Re: Pedal Interpretation

Reply #4 on: August 22, 2023, 10:54:11 PM

You are typically allowed to and even need to use the pedal in romantic repertoire even when it's not indicated. How much and when is something you'll develop an intuition for, the more repertoire you study. But it's not true that there is always pedal. Dry textures or staccato should probably not use a lot of pedal.

I think the opening to Jardins sous la Pluie can be played quite dry and then you add in dashes of pedal more and more as the piece develops.

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keypeg

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Re: Pedal Interpretation

Reply #5 on: September 04, 2023, 06:39:32 PM

I think I'd want guidance rather than just hoping for "intuition". I learned a ton through the piece that I just worked on. My teacher and I discussed pedal choices, I was encouraged to listen to various performances, listening for that, and we explored these things substantially. A blanket statement that Romantic music "uses pedal" or similar to me is not guidance.

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lelle

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Re: Pedal Interpretation

Reply #6 on: September 04, 2023, 10:16:09 PM

Quote from: keypeg on September 04, 2023, 06:39:32 PM

I think I'd want guidance rather than just hoping for "intuition". I learned a ton through the piece that I just worked on. My teacher and I discussed pedal choices, I was encouraged to listen to various performances, listening for that, and we explored these things substantially. A blanket statement that Romantic music "uses pedal" or similar to me is not guidance.

That is fair. My comment on intuition was a general answer to the question "how do i know when to use the Pedal?" in OPs post. Actually not sure how to give specific guidance on that question. I can teach how to use the pedal piecemeal by teaching specific passages and teaching a number of principles, but all of that will have to interweave with a broad experience of playing pieces until it becomes intuition. "How do I know when to use pedal?" One day, with enough experience and guidance under your belt you will have a strong enough intuition and knowledge that you'll never have any doubt.

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keypeg

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Re: Pedal Interpretation

Reply #7 on: September 05, 2023, 03:11:35 PM

Quote from: lelle on September 04, 2023, 10:16:09 PM

That is fair. My comment on intuition was a general answer to the question "how do i know when to use the Pedal?" in OPs post. Actually not sure how to give specific guidance on that question. I can teach how to use the pedal piecemeal by teaching specific passages and teaching a number of principles, but all of that will have to interweave with a broad experience of playing pieces until it becomes intuition. "How do I know when to use pedal?" One day, with enough experience and guidance under your belt you will have a strong enough intuition and knowledge that you'll never have any doubt.

I was thinking in terms of the OP, for the OP. He/she has been given very generalized and generic advice by the teacher - and if applied wholesale to romantic music, also incorrect. This bothers me. The OP should be taught more specifically in the beginning.

I'm fairly advanced in this regard by now. It began years ago with general principles and advice about certain passages and guided listening which built up what is now instinct. I'd like the same for the OP.

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lelle

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Re: Pedal Interpretation

Reply #8 on: September 06, 2023, 12:04:13 PM

Quote from: keypeg on September 05, 2023, 03:11:35 PM

I was thinking in terms of the OP, for the OP. He/she has been given very generalized and generic advice by the teacher - and if applied wholesale to romantic music, also incorrect. This bothers me. The OP should be taught more specifically in the beginning.

I'm fairly advanced in this regard by now. It began years ago with general principles and advice about certain passages and guided listening which built up what is now instinct. I'd like the same for the OP.

Ok let's give it a shot:
- It's not true that you should always use the pedal in romantic music
- If it seems clear that the texture is supposed to be dry/staccato, don't use pedal, or very very little
- Otherwise, various degrees of pedal can be used to enhance the sound
- General beginner rule is to pedal according to the harmony, ie keep the resonance of one particular harmony going until it changes, then quickly change on the new chord
- Change more often if the above rule causes melody or passagework to blur together in a dissonant/muddy way
- Use less pedal if you have passagework that needs to be clear.
- Ascending passagework and melodies can tolerate more pedal than descending
- Most importantly, use your ear to judge how much or how little pedal to use and how often to change. Sometimes you need to change on every note. It's not an on/off switch, but you can press it down to varying degrees depending on the acoustics of the room and the instrument. Listen!

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