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Topic: Pieces that inspired other pieces  (Read 277 times)

Offline transitional

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Pieces that inspired other pieces
on: November 06, 2023, 06:21:19 PM
No one ever connects these but I feel many similarities between -

Schubert: Sonata in C Major "Reliquie" (D 840) and Brahms Sonata No. 1 in C Major (Op. 1)
Beethoven: Sonata in E Minor (Op. 90) and Schubert: Sonata in E Minor (D 566)

Do you guys have any other ones that seemingly have a connection .. perhaps connections that are less mentioned?
Advanced pianist and beginner composer. The Schubert sonatas are amazing and I want to learn all of them eventually!

Offline lelle

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Re: Pieces that inspired other pieces
Reply #1 on: November 06, 2023, 10:30:03 PM
Two that come to mind off the top of my head

Schubert's Wanderer Fantasie and Liszt's Sonata in b minor - Liszt was fascinated with Schuberts work, and emulated and expanded on the formula used by that piece - a long, single movement work made up by parts that serve as separate movements but nevertheless unified by using the same motif(s).

Mozart sonata in C minor, second movement, and Beethoven Pathetique sonata, second movement. Notwithstanding that both sonatas are in C minor, the beginning of the theme of Pathetiques "Adagio cantabile" is the same as the motif in one of the secondary themes in Mozart's second movement, in the same register, and in pretty much the same character. Coincidence? Hard to believe.

Offline transitional

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Re: Pieces that inspired other pieces
Reply #2 on: November 06, 2023, 11:12:58 PM
Two that come to mind off the top of my head

Schubert's Wanderer Fantasie and Liszt's Sonata in b minor - Liszt was fascinated with Schuberts work, and emulated and expanded on the formula used by that piece - a long, single movement work made up by parts that serve as separate movements but nevertheless unified by using the same motif(s).

Mozart sonata in C minor, second movement, and Beethoven Pathetique sonata, second movement. Notwithstanding that both sonatas are in C minor, the beginning of the theme of Pathetiques "Adagio cantabile" is the same as the motif in one of the secondary themes in Mozart's second movement, in the same register, and in pretty much the same character. Coincidence? Hard to believe.
According to Wikipedia:
Quote
Prominent musicologists debate whether or not the Pathétique may have been inspired by Mozart's piano sonata K. 457, since both compositions are in C minor and have three very similar movements. The second movement, "Adagio cantabile", especially, makes use of a theme remarkably similar to one in the spacious second movement of Mozart's sonata.[4]

I will have to look into the Wanderer Fantasy one.
Advanced pianist and beginner composer. The Schubert sonatas are amazing and I want to learn all of them eventually!

Offline transitional

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Re: Pieces that inspired other pieces
Reply #3 on: February 26, 2024, 10:08:46 PM
Another one I'm surprised I can't find referenced on the internet is Rossini's Italian Girl in Algiers Overture and Mozart Concerto 23, both of which have the same second theme.
Advanced pianist and beginner composer. The Schubert sonatas are amazing and I want to learn all of them eventually!

Online liszt-and-the-galops

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Re: Pieces that inspired other pieces
Reply #4 on: February 27, 2024, 05:37:48 PM
A few pieces that immediately come to mind are the newer and older versions of Liszt's Paganini etudes and the Transcendental etudes.
Obviously, nearly every transcription ever made references another piece.
I can't think of many specific examples off the top of my head, though.
Amateur pianist, beginning composer, conqueror of the Last post wins thread, creator of the Musical Madness tournament (2024).

Offline brogers70

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Re: Pieces that inspired other pieces
Reply #5 on: February 27, 2024, 08:40:27 PM
Shostakovich's Preludes and Fugues were pretty obviously inspired by the WTC; maybe Chopin's Preludes, too.

It's a stretch maybe, but I think Brahms Romance in F in Opus 118 could have been inspired by Beethoven's Heilige Dankesang from the A minor Quartet.

Offline frodo4

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Re: Pieces that inspired other pieces
Reply #6 on: February 27, 2024, 09:27:27 PM
Beethoven’s great Diabelli variations were inspired by the theme written by Diabelli.  Diabelli was a music publisher and composer.  Classical guitarists will be familiar with his guitar music.  Diabelli originally intended 50 composers to each supply one variation to his theme.  And Diabelli did publish this set where the composers included Schubert and a young Franz Liszt.  It is true that Beethoven thought of the theme as a “cobbler’s patch” theme or even as trash.  From what I recall reading or maybe I’m just speculating: Beethoven was insulted by being asked to contribute one variation like everyone else.  So, to show up everyone, he was inspired to write a whole set of 33 variations on Diabelli’s theme that he did not like.  It ranks with Bach’s Goldberg’s variations as the greatest variations ever written IMO.

Schumann spent many hours studying the late string quartets of Beethoven before writing his 3 string quartets.  I hear the sound on Beethoven’s late quartets in many sections of Schumann’s quartets. He is not just copying Beethoven’s late style in certain movements.  The works are truly great compositions and show great creativity IMO.

Offline thorn

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Re: Pieces that inspired other pieces
Reply #7 on: February 28, 2024, 10:38:50 AM
Debussy's 9th Prelude (Bk 1) gets its core ideas from Albeniz's El Albaicin, which Debussy called "the perfect composition".

Godowsky's Java Suite was also inspired by Albeniz's Iberia- off the top of my head (haven't heard the Godowsky in ages) the 4 book structure, the quasi-ethnomusicological nature, the 3rd piece of each is a festival procession, the 9th piece of each is a bustling urban scene, the 2nd piece of the Godowsky directly borrows from Jerez (no 11 in Iberia).

Online liszt-and-the-galops

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Re: Pieces that inspired other pieces
Reply #8 on: February 28, 2024, 01:04:17 PM
Godowsky's Java Suite was also inspired by Albeniz's Iberia- off the top of my head (haven't heard the Godowsky in ages) the 4 book structure, the quasi-ethnomusicological nature, the 3rd piece of each is a festival procession, the 9th piece of each is a bustling urban scene, the 2nd piece of the Godowsky directly borrows from Jerez (no 11 in Iberia).
Reminds me of the existence of Gadowsky's adaptions of the Chopin etudes for the left hand.
Amateur pianist, beginning composer, conqueror of the Last post wins thread, creator of the Musical Madness tournament (2024).

Offline thorn

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Re: Pieces that inspired other pieces
Reply #9 on: February 28, 2024, 01:32:50 PM
The Java Suite is an original composition but yes Godowsky is best known for recomposing the Chopin etudes. Which reminds me, he also rewrote Triana (no 6 from Iberia) but I'm not really a fan. Before Alicia de Larrocha came along Iberia was generally considered unplayable and even Rubinstein rewrote difficult sections because he couldn't play the originals, so the Godowsky is part of this trend.
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