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Topic: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!  (Read 1883 times)

Offline carcoleghoast

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Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
on: January 12, 2024, 12:11:51 PM
When I first heard Yekwon Sunwoo perform the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3 on stage at the finals of the Van Cliburn International Piano Competition, I fell deeply in love and knew the concerto had to be part of my repertoire ASAP. I later heard that the work was perhaps the hardest concerto out there, so while I was sight-reading it, I became terrified and left the book back on my bookshelf. This became an annual ritual – I'd revisit the concerto, spend an hour grappling with it, and then stash it back on the shelf, untouched for the next many months. Even after learning all the hard repertoire out there like the Ravel Gaspard de la nuit, Scriabin Sonata No. 5, Prokofiev Sonata No. 8, and more, I continued to be scared to even learn at least one movement of the concerto.

Now, at the brink of turning 20, I have decided to confront my fears and learn the concerto. I've decided to start with the second and third movements, and once that's completed, I'll learn the first movement as well. If there are any tips on learning this beast of a concerto, please let me know!
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #1 on: January 12, 2024, 12:22:18 PM
Quote from: carcoleghoast on January 12, 2024, 12:11:51 PM
When I first heard Yekwon Sunwoo perform the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3 on stage at the finals of the Van Cliburn International Piano Competition, I fell deeply in love and knew the concerto had to be part of my repertoire ASAP. I later heard that the work was perhaps the hardest concerto out there, so while I was sight-reading it, I became terrified and left the book back on my bookshelf. This became an annual ritual – I'd revisit the concerto, spend an hour grappling with it, and then stash it back on the shelf, untouched for the next many months. Even after learning all the hard repertoire out there like the Ravel Gaspard de la nuit, Scriabin Sonata No. 5, Prokofiev Sonata No. 8, and more, I continued to be scared to even learn at least one movement of the concerto.

Now, at the brink of turning 20, I have decided to confront my fears and learn the concerto. I've decided to start with the second and third movements, and once that's completed, I'll learn the first movement as well. If there are any tips on learning this beast of a concerto, please let me know!

You're best bet? The 3rd Movement is definitely the hardest, so it might be best to learn the 3rd then deal with the 1st and 2nd, or tackle the easier 1st and 2nd then deal with the 3rd.
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Offline carcoleghoast

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #2 on: January 12, 2024, 12:51:33 PM
Quote from: perfect_pitch on January 12, 2024, 12:22:18 PM
You're best bet? The 3rd Movement is definitely the hardest, so it might be best to learn the 3rd then deal with the 1st and 2nd, or tackle the easier 1st and 2nd then deal with the 3rd.

Really? That's a little surprising since I'm struggling so much with the second movement compared to the third, but I'll take your word for it. I'll focus on the third movement first, and then i'll do the second then the first
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #3 on: January 12, 2024, 01:08:58 PM
Quote from: carcoleghoast on January 12, 2024, 12:51:33 PM
Really? That's a little surprising since I'm struggling so much with the second movement compared to the third, but I'll take your word for it. I'll focus on the third movement first, and then i'll do the second then the first

I thought the 2nd was actually the easiest movement to be honest. Yes, the fingering is a little awkward and there are some large LH chordal sections, but the hardest bit to really nail is the 3/8 with triplet semiquavers (last few pages).

The 1st movement is difficult mainly in the cadenza. Take away the first 4 pages of the 1st Movement, and you'll find there's a lot of devilish bits in the piece.

As for the 3rd movement, the fast Allegro bits are a bastard to get through, and while the slower bits are more calm - the octave shifting is a pain in the arse... and there are so many damn bloody chords. I can barely stretch a 10th and I'm having quite a bit of difficulty with the large octave chord bits (the one in C Major is hard, the one in Bb Major is a prick), and the really, really tricky part (you know exactly which one if you've had a try of the whole movement) just before the Coda is an arse with those incredibly quicky octaves in the LH and the large chords in the RH.
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Offline carcoleghoast

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #4 on: January 12, 2024, 01:26:40 PM
Quote from: perfect_pitch on January 12, 2024, 01:08:58 PM
and the really, really tricky part (you know exactly which one if you've had a try of the whole movement) just before the Coda is an arse with those incredibly quicky octaves in the LH and the large chords in the RH.

I have tried the tricky part in the third movement a few days ago. I was prepared to get terrified once again (haha) when I heard it was the trickiest section in the entire concerto, but it wasn't that bad when i got through. I think it's because I'm great with patterns. . .

But yeah, I just went through the second movement and I can see why it's not so bad. You're right, it's easier than the third movement.
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #5 on: January 12, 2024, 03:21:41 PM
Quote from: carcoleghoast on January 12, 2024, 01:26:40 PM
I have tried the tricky part in the third movement a few days ago. I was prepared to get terrified once again (haha) when I heard it was the trickiest section in the entire concerto, but it wasn't that bad when i got through. I think it's because I'm great with patterns. . .

And getting it close to speed???
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Offline pianistavt

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #6 on: January 12, 2024, 04:54:09 PM
Quote from: carcoleghoast on January 12, 2024, 12:11:51 PM
.... I became terrified and left the book back on my bookshelf. This became an annual ritual – I'd revisit the concerto, spend an hour grappling with it, and then stash it back on the shelf, untouched for the next many months.
Oh, you must have subconsciously picked up on the new policy - - the music gods have put a ban on conservatory students (up and coming professionals) from learning Rach 2 and 3 - - they believe it's over played to the neglect of other worthy concerti.  It will probably soon be banned from competitions.  Best get ahead of the game and learn Rach 4 or Medtner 3 or Schnittke piano concerto (1960).
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Offline carcoleghoast

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #7 on: January 12, 2024, 11:16:40 PM
Quote from: perfect_pitch on January 12, 2024, 03:21:41 PM
And getting it close to speed???

Bringing it close to speed shouldn't be a problem for me. My technique is pretty good.

Do you know any part of the concerto that is hard to bring out musically?
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Offline carcoleghoast

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #8 on: January 12, 2024, 11:17:38 PM
Quote from: pianistavt on January 12, 2024, 04:54:09 PM
Oh, you must have subconsciously picked up on the new policy - - the music gods have put a ban on conservatory students (up and coming professionals) from learning Rach 2 and 3 - - they believe it's over played to the neglect of other worthy concerti.  It will probably soon be banned from competitions.  Best get ahead of the game and learn Rach 4 or Medtner 3 or Schnittke piano concerto (1960).

Thank goodness I'm not pursuing music XD. I'm in love with the concerto, and I'm just learning it for the fun of it.
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #9 on: January 12, 2024, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: pianistavt on January 12, 2024, 04:54:09 PM
Oh, you must have subconsciously picked up on the new policy - - the music gods have put a ban on conservatory students (up and coming professionals) from learning Rach 2 and 3 - - they believe it's over played to the neglect of other worthy concerti.  It will probably soon be banned from competitions.  Best get ahead of the game and learn Rach 4 or Medtner 3 or Schnittke piano concerto (1960).

Oh please - what about the Grieg... the Schumann? Tchiakovsky's 1st? Are they going to ban them as well???
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Offline transitional

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #10 on: January 13, 2024, 01:51:40 AM
Quote from: perfect_pitch on January 12, 2024, 11:58:40 PM
Oh please - what about the Grieg... the Schumann? Tchiakovsky's 1st? Are they going to ban them as well???
And Saint Saens 2, and Beethoven 3/4/5...
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last 3 schubert sonatas and piano trios are something else

Offline galante

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #11 on: January 13, 2024, 02:43:56 AM
Quote from: transitional on January 13, 2024, 01:51:40 AM
And Saint-Saens 2, and Beethoven 3/4/5...
What do you mean by that? And also, what are you talking about?
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Offline mjames

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Re: Finally learning the Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3!
Reply #12 on: January 15, 2024, 07:18:11 PM
Quote from: pianistavt on January 12, 2024, 04:54:09 PM
Oh, you must have subconsciously picked up on the new policy - - the music gods have put a ban on conservatory students (up and coming professionals) from learning Rach 2 and 3 - - they believe it's over played to the neglect of other worthy concerti.  It will probably soon be banned from competitions.  Best get ahead of the game and learn Rach 4 or Medtner 3 or Schnittke piano concerto (1960).

Students and professionals learn what the audiences want. Rach 2 and 3 are favorites for a reason, they're really good piano concerti. Students love it, professionals love it, and the audiences love it. of course competition judges and conservatory staff are sick of it, it's the nature of classical music. They listen to 100s of kids playing the same pieces all the time throughout the year, every year. No matter how great a piece is, listen to it 10000 times then you're bound to get sick of it. That's not Rachmaninoff's fault or the student's fault.

If judges and staff are getting sick of the same composers being played over and over again, change careers. Most students won't invest a serious amount of time (which is what learning concerti requires) learning Henselt or Schnittke when 99% orchestras will never play their concerti.
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