I'm STUCK! Help with an adult student needed, please!

[healingkeys]

I am teaching an adult student that has been playing piano for about 10 years and came to me after about 5 years of taking with different teachers. When she came to me she was playing songs that were too hard for her skill level and she was basically memorizing a few measures each week to get through the songs. She is taking lessons because she wants to play for enjoyment and relaxation, but doesn't know what style of music she wants to play.
She is a very anxious person and hard on herself all the time. She is pessimistic and always says that she "should be learning faster," "should be better than she is," "her daughter learns fast, why doesn't she" etc. She says she puts in some practice time at home but is NEVER happy with her progress. I have tried bringing in easier versions of songs but she gets discouraged and complains that she "used to play harder songs." I have tried bringing in lead sheets and she says they're too easy and boring and doesn't want to play them. She is never happy with how she plays a song in her lessons always saying that she played better at home. If she plays a wrong note in her lessons she gets very discouraged and frustrated and on numerous occasions has even ended the lesson early because she is so frustrated that she played a wrong note. She has to look at her hands often to know where she is on the piano, but then gets lost when looking back up at the music. Also, if she plays a note with the wrong fingering she gets lost with where she is on the piano. When this happens, again starts the cycle of discouraged, frustrated, and gives up. I have talked with her about maybe going to a different teacher because I am stuck with how to teach her, but she wants to continue and acknowledges that she didn't feel she really made much progress with other teachers and she wants to continue because she has been taking for so many years.
I know there are many bigger issues here, but I'm looking for any suggestions on songs for her to play or techniques to use with her. I'd say she is really at the level of a late beginner. She can read notes, better with the right hand. Minimal or repetitive movement in the left hand would be best. She does like the sound of New Age music and also pop music from the 80s and 90s.
Any suggestions with songs or techniques would be GREATLY appreciated!

[bryfarr]

First, kudos to you for sticking with this difficult student.  She probably wants to stick with you because of you're open and flexible demeanor.

I wonder if your student is, in spirit, more of a composer/improviser.  It's often the case with such people that they get very frustrated with reading/learning from a written score.  They memorize and look at their hands.

I know it's not what you asked but I would recommend teaching her basic harmony and how to improvise.  It's not difficult to arpeggiate the major and minor chords within a single octave in the lh and carve out a melody in the rh.  My hunch is that she is going to enjoy learning music theory.  Encourage her to write stuff down at home.

I hope you'll consider thinking outside the box like this and give it a try - - perhaps you can demo for her how to improvise in a new age style as setting up a goal.

[lostinidlewonder]

She has high expectations about what works she plays as you mentioned she refused to play "easier" works and didn't want to study them.

For a change to occur with how she is going there needs to be a change of approach. Sure it is ok if she still wants to study her challenging works but it seems like she laments how slow she is in learning them. How to get faster? It requires that she humbles herself and indeed study a lot of easier works. She will need to improve her sight reading skills so that she can connect with the sight reading/memorization synergy which represents a very efficient and fast way to learn your works.

If her reading skills become stronger then there is often no need to even memorize a work and her repertoire will expand exponentially. This is something she needs to consider.

If she 100% does not want to study easier works which will make her faster to learn her more difficult repertoire then she is really tying herself up in terms of efficient options. There are ways to improve memorization through more deliberate conscious observations of patterns, how to highlight these patterns in your music and etc.

I'd suggest that she improve her reading skills because it looks like she is lacking in that department a lot, this will improve her a lot. Memorization and sight reading go hand in hand so she should not feel that they are utterly segregated and you still can study her harder works, but mix it up with many smaller works which improve her reading. She should also realize that piano study shouldn't always feel like it takes weeks or months to finish a piece, why not finish a piece in one sitting? Why not study 100s of works a year. Why not sight read through thousands? She needs to consider looking outside of her perception of what it means to study the piano.

[quantum]

Your student may be too attached to their particular process, or how the learning process should work in their view, and it is causing them to stumble.  As an exercise, have the student do a familiar activity, but in a different manner, a variation on a theme so to speak.  Revisit the same activity each lesson, but have your student explore a new method to achieve the same task each time.  Show your student it is ok to step outside of a familiar process and explore, and more importantly that it is ok and even beneficial to fail. 

Give your student some self-directed assignments.  For example, do research on selecting pieces of interest to be considered for future study at the piano.  However, your student must logically reason why chosen pieces would be appropriate for their own study.  Is the piece of appropriate difficulty and fit for the student's current abilities?  What does the student find interesting about the piece?  (Saying "I like it" is not an acceptable answer, they must elaborate).  What strategies would the student employ when learning the piece?  The student will be providing all the answers to these questions because it is part of their self-directed assignment, as a teacher you just provide feedback.

[pianocavs]

Hi!

This student's behavior makes me think that there is a factor that is blocking her progress and improvement.
That factor is that she listens to the inner voice that points out her mistakes and punishes her for not getting what she wants, but she doesn't listen to anything else.

It seems that she has blocked her hearing from any other voice, including that of her teacher.

I think that the solution is exactly the opposite of what she imagines.
That improvement would come from spending more time on each piece... analyzing it... discovering what the composer did, how he or she did it, and why he or she did it...
Defining, together with the teacher, what is required to correct each mistake and to consolidate each step.
Seeking first sight reading, giving more priority to precision and less to speed.
And making sure she has a good understanding of the basics of music theory.

For this to be possible, I think that the first step is for the student to realize that she is not listening. That she is only listening to that inner voice that punishes her.
If she discovers that she is trapped in a labyrinth and that she is not seeing the signs that tell her where the exit is, she will surely improve.
The signs are there, but she cannot see them.
If she can calm her mind, forget her rush, and learn to listen, she will surely notice great progress in her piano practice.

If she, or any other student, needs to study music theory, I can give you a reference that may be useful.

Good luck!

[jonslaughter]

I am teaching an adult student that has been playing piano for about 10 years and came to me after about 5 years of taking with different teachers. When she came to me she was playing songs that were too hard for her skill level and she was basically memorizing a few measures each week to get through the songs. She is taking lessons because she wants to play for enjoyment and relaxation, but doesn't know what style of music she wants to play.
She is a very anxious person and hard on herself all the time. She is pessimistic and always says that she "should be learning faster," "should be better than she is," "her daughter learns fast, why doesn't she" etc. She says she puts in some practice time at home but is NEVER happy with her progress. I have tried bringing in easier versions of songs but she gets discouraged and complains that she "used to play harder songs." I have tried bringing in lead sheets and she says they're too easy and boring and doesn't want to play them. She is never happy with how she plays a song in her lessons always saying that she played better at home. If she plays a wrong note in her lessons she gets very discouraged and frustrated and on numerous occasions has even ended the lesson early because she is so frustrated that she played a wrong note. She has to look at her hands often to know where she is on the piano, but then gets lost when looking back up at the music. Also, if she plays a note with the wrong fingering she gets lost with where she is on the piano. When this happens, again starts the cycle of discouraged, frustrated, and gives up. I have talked with her about maybe going to a different teacher because I am stuck with how to teach her, but she wants to continue and acknowledges that she didn't feel she really made much progress with other teachers and she wants to continue because she has been taking for so many years.
I know there are many bigger issues here, but I'm looking for any suggestions on songs for her to play or techniques to use with her. I'd say she is really at the level of a late beginner. She can read notes, better with the right hand. Minimal or repetitive movement in the left hand would be best. She does like the sound of New Age music and also pop music from the 80s and 90s.
Any suggestions with songs or techniques would be GREATLY appreciated!

I think both of you, maybe more of her, have to accept that things can be slow. What you should find out with her is that if she actually enjoys doing what she does. If she's ok struggling like she is and going at the pace she does then that should be ok. If she wants to learn faster you should try to convince her there are better ways to go about it. There are many paths to Rome and some are harder than others.

You should try to convince her to stop worrying and comparing her with her daughter. She's not her daughter and have different skills, different life's, different everything.

I was one of those who felt simple pieces were too easy and boring so I would work on things far above my level(and still do to some degree). It has taught me a lot though like how to optimize my learning and how important regular practice is.

1. Missed notes are not an issue. You must convince her that even the best musicians miss notes here and there. The most important thing is to ignore it because when you let it stop you then you are screwing up your entire learning progression. That one missed note or two is not relevant. It is a blemish that is fixed AFTER one can play the piece. The way the mind works is two fold: If we do not know the music well or are anxious it throws us off too much. It is hard to overcome this because it is both a personality trait and musical issue.

I'm not sure what the main issue here is but I think it likely stems from not knowing the music and likely not being able to play music well. Being able to play pieces very well teaches one something. Likely she has never perfected a piece and so doesn't understand that "feeling" of being a "machine". It's sorta like musical memory. It's like a car engine that might have a timing issue but it still goes. In a live performance one has to get through the music no matter what. Even if it is a train wreck one must get through it and make it work. Many times most people have no clue if it is just a single note and they might even "like it".

Part of it is playing the note with "confidence" and not flubbing it which just makes it stand out more.

2. Learning music theory. It is very important to know music theory because it helps guide the mind. One can think of the chord and the brain automatically recalls the music. Now, people may have many different ways to do that(many people "play by ear") but knowing music theory is just another tool to make it more effective.

3. It's very important to have some idea of the entire piece of music and to work progressively. You do not perfect bar by bar. That is the worst way to learn. It is needed only when one has to perfect hard parts. If one is working bar by bar and can't play through the piece slowly and relatively well even if hands separate then the piece is too hard. It may be ok to play a hard pieces like this but one has to realize that it's going to be slow and somewhat counterproductive.

My biggest fault was trying to play bar by bar and perfect every note in order. It slowed me down tremendously when I was learning. That is not how it works. We are not robots/computers. We have to have context to understand things and to remember. You cannot remember something completely out of context.

So when you get an overview of the piece(even if it is just analyzing it away from the keyboard) you have a reference for where all those notes "hang". You see the patterns at both the local scale and the large scale. E.g., if a section repeats you can say "Ok, I only have to learn that part once rather than twice so that makes it easier". Or it might only approximately repeat and you can say, ok, it repeats up to this point or these notes are different but everything else is the same. You can say "Ok, it does this then that then this" and that gives you a guide, like directions, about how the piece is put together.

Over time, when you have done these explicit they start to become internal. It is true of all things. As you learn a piece of music you start to internalize things and that is why it becomes easier and easier(or, rather, you are putting the piece together and it feels more and more complete). It is true of ALL things. Building cabinets,  writing programs, painting, etc. A painter doesn't paint starting at one spot and working his way out like a computer does with the monitor. They paint in progressive steps. The same is true of learning music.


4. I think you must convince her to some degree(you can't completely) that she's doing it "right" in the sense that she is making progress. I know this because it sounds like she was in a similar spot I once was. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Again, all roads lead to Rome.  In fact, everyone goes through this. Some people don't spend much time and A W and Q but spend more time on F and X. Everyone is different.

What you have to do is convince here to try *different* ways and put in enough time to know if they work.  There literally is no right way of anything or another way to say it: every way is right.

What typically happens is we spin our wheels by doing things we think are correct but actually are doing nothing for us. We don't move on to the next stage because we don't realize there is a next stage so we just sit and do the same thing over and over(a sort of sign of insanity). Everyone does it to some degree because everyone is *trying* to get somewhere but it takes time. Even the best are trying to move to the "next stage" or they simply give up and hence spin there wheels or even go backwards.

The way to break out of these issues is simply try something new. Usually one learns something new and that adds to their tool bag and helps them a little. It gives them a little momentum.  Once they start to feel this is the right way they start seeking new ways all the time because they know it helps then they sort of reach diminishing returns. A teacher is suppose to be the one that is providing new things and keep challenging the student but with many people now days they are hard headed or "don't have the time" and so get stuck and think it is the teachers fault. Sometimes it is the teachers fault but usually it is both.


5. Improvisation is extremely important. It helps make the mind fluid. When one improvises one is constantly making "wrong notes" but one learns to make it right. Probably learning to improvise was the biggest leaps I made. I could do it on guitar but on piano it takes a new world because the piano is truly a music making machine and the way it works is straight forward. It's very important to be able to understand sheet music and being able to follow the scores with audio is important. Improv helps  tie everything together. It can seem hard to get started and if ones expectation is too high they will not pursue it but one has to accept they are not good.

6. You must convince her that her trying to put herself on a pedestal only hurts her. We all want to be the best but when we feel like we should be the best we are pushing too hard against something that is not movable or which we cannot move because we do not have the ability. One has to learn to go with the flow and expect where they are. It's the goldilocks principle being "being just right". The people who make the most progress the fastest are not necessarily the best but are those that are moving at the right pace for what they are doing. They optimize their progress not by going full blast but by going at the right speed. It's like the tortoise and the hair. The truth is to go fast when you need to go fast and go slow when you need to go slow and to have the awareness to regulate both. Most people do not have the awareness. They either are stuck on slow or stuck on fast and it is very hard to realize one even has the ability to slow down or speed up much less actually do it.

Her expectations of herself without fully understanding the context of what she is is where the frustration comes from. She's expecting herself to be better, trying pieces in which she is missing the necessary tools to complete well, and going slower than what she would if she backed off and learned other things that would get those tools.

There are "pot holes" that exist on "her road". I don't know what they are, she likely does not know what they are, and you probably do not know what they are. But if she was to work on filling those holes up she could have a much more fluid drive.