Chopin's best composition?

[jamienc]

Just curious to poll the crowd as to what you believe to be Chopin’s most remarkable composition. I have it narrowed down to two, but I’m eager to know what you all think. I’ll reserve my picks after you all provide your input.

(I know, it’s difficult. But if you were stranded on an island for eternity with one choice of all of Chopin’s works and a concert grand piano, what would you choose?)

Looking forward…

[swilliams002]

Ballade in F Minor.

[vandoren]

Maybe Op. 9, no. 1.  Quite an opening melody. 

[dizzyfingers]

Chopin thought very highly of his opus 9 no 1 Nocturne in E-flat, and it's become world famous, partly because it's accessible to students.

I believe you'll be seeing the 4th ballade and the Barcarolle listed the most, and the fantasy in f minor - all beautiful sublime works from his later years.  Both the 2nd and 3rd sonatas are also sublime, imo.

[vandoren]

Chopin thought very highly of his opus 9 no 1 Nocturne in E-flat, and it's become world famous, partly because it's accessible to students.

Dizzy— I think the Eb nocturne you are referring to is op 9 no 2.  It has a great melody too. Op 9 no 1 is in Bb minor. Starts with the right hand alone in a way that always immediately draws my attention in.

[ragaih]

Chopin's Ballade No. 4 is a magnificent piece, but my two favorite works are definitely Berceuse Op. 57 and Prelude Op. 45 – which are rather lesser-known 

[lelle]

It's difficult to pick one because he has so many desert-island pieces.

In terms of form, I think the first Ballade and perhaps the Polonaise-fantaisie are the most remarkable.

In terms of emotional impact, the four ballades are all amazing but Ballade 1 and 4 come out on top. However, I couldn't do without the 2nd and 3rd either.

In terms of sheer creativity and emotional richness in its most condensed form, the 24 preludes are something else.

[transitional]

There are a bunch of great themes in the 3rd sonata, which I didn't completely get at first. I initially loved the 1st sonata because it was the most instantly crunchy, but it definitely isn't the most communicative sonata. Basically every theme in the 2nd section of the 1st mvt of the 3rd sonata is really powerfully informed by the last and it builds even better in the new key. Try Hofmann's recording first.

I also like the 3rd Ballade, but that's been a favorite for a while.

[thorn]

Another for the 4th ballade here. Predictable but perhaps that says something. Though I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the op.10/3 etude- it's well known and loved beyond the piano/classical musician community and didn't Chopin say it was the best melody he ever wrote or words to that effect?

[jamienc]

Yes. Dizzyfingers totally predicted my two with the Ballade 4 and the Barcarolle.

[brogers70]

The two that I like best are the Db Berceuse and the Nocturne Op 9 #3 in B major.

[liszt-and-the-galops]

The Ballades and several of the Etudes are probably popular choices. The Sonatas as well.

Personally:
B4, 10/1, 10/8, 10/9, 25/1, 25/6, and 25/9 are my favorites.

[pakkun]

Chopin Piano Concerto n.1 - 2nd movement “Romance” … so beautiful … 🥹

[essence]

Don't forget 4th scherzo. Moisevitch does a great performance.

It contrasts well with 4th Ballade.

[dizzyfingers]

Don't forget 4th scherzo. Moisevitch does a great performance.

It contrasts well with 4th Ballade.

For some reason, that's one late Chopin work I easily forget.  I only listen to it to try to understand why I'm so ambivalent about it.  Maybe Moisevitch's playing would change that - -

[essence]

i=d-uUrTWuvoXB0SjS

The problem is, when I try to play it, it seems like a different piece!

The slower sections contain one of his most heart rending melodies.

A million years ago, one of the first records I ever bought was of him performing all the scherzos and ballades. So it is my foundation.

[dizzyfingers]

The problem is, when I try to play it, it seems like a different piece!
The slower sections contain one of his most heart rending melodies.
A million years ago, one of the first records I ever bought was of him performing all the scherzos and ballades. So it is my foundation.

Thank you for posting.  Definitely an ear-opening performance.  So elegant.  You don't hear that beautiful tone + steady rhythm + expressive restraint anymore.  Need to listen to more Moiseiwitsch!

[jamienc]

Sorry folks…

This might not be the best response to my initial question considering the fact that I have such a high regard for the Barcarolle and the Ballade No. 4, but I’ve had a change of heart and I really think the Impromptu No. 3 is quite exquisite. After some listening and experimentation, I think it truly ranks up there with the best of his output. I can’t explain it, but when I listen to that work it just brings me to an unfamiliar but gratifying place. It seems to have everything his other works present somewhat musically and technically, but with a grace that is unparalleled. What magic there is in that piece…

[lelle]

i=d-uUrTWuvoXB0SjS

The problem is, when I try to play it, it seems like a different piece!

The slower sections contain one of his most heart rending melodies.

A million years ago, one of the first records I ever bought was of him performing all the scherzos and ballades. So it is my foundation.

Marvellous playing. I have never liked the 4th Scherzo but this recording makes me feel like there might be something to this piece after all. That's a rare thing to experience!

[ahinton]

At the risk of predictability, yes, F minor Ballade, Barcarolle, E major Scherzo, Op. 62 Nocturnes...

[essence]

At the risk of predictability, yes, F minor Ballade, Barcarolle, E major Scherzo, Op. 62 Nocturnes...

Nobody could fault those choices! op 62 #1 has always been a favourite - it seems to be looking forward to Debussy and Scriabin.

[jesujuva]

Ballade No. 1 in G minor. Obviously. Why is the 4th ballade getting more attention? It's nothing compared to the beauty of the first ballade.

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Ballade No. 1 in G minor. Obviously. Why is the 4th ballade getting more attention? It's nothing compared to the beauty of the first ballade.

What recordings have you listened to that gave you that opinion?

[dizzyfingers]

Ballade No. 1 in G minor. Obviously. Why is the 4th ballade getting more attention? It's nothing compared to the beauty of the first ballade.

I assume you've listened to the 4th quite a bit ...

The 1st ballade is an early work - sketches started in 1831 - Chopin was 20. Completed in 1835.
The 4th ballade is only from 7 years later but is considered a more mature work. Composed in 1842.

The 1st ballade is full of fresh ideas, vigor and beauty. A clear example of Chopin's genius.
The 4th ballade is all this and an even more sophisticated rendering of how beautiful the piano can sound, wonderful contrapuntal writing, unexpected shapes and contours, a grander scheme and deeper pathos.

To say one is better than the other is rather ridiculous, but to say that you like one better than the other and "this is why - - " works:

[jesujuva]

What recordings have you listened to that gave you that opinion?

I listen to Maurizio Pollini's recording on Spotify.

[jesujuva]

The 1st ballade is an early work - sketches started in 1831 - Chopin was 20. Completed in 1835.
The 4th ballade is only from 7 years later but is considered a more mature work. Composed in 1842.

The 1st ballade is full of fresh ideas, vigor and beauty. A clear example of Chopin's genius.
The 4th ballade is all this and an even more sophisticated rendering of how beautiful the piano can sound, wonderful contrapuntal writing, unexpected shapes and contours, a grander scheme and deeper pathos.

To say one is better than the other is rather ridiculous, but to say that you like one better than the other and "this is why - - " works:

Sorry, I tend to be a little dogmatic about my opinions when it comes to my favorite piano pieces, and I like making controversial statements

I'll admit I actually haven't played either (I want to learn the first ballade later this year), and I probably need to listen to the fourth ballade a little more to compare the two (I've listened to the first ballade so much I practically know it by heart). Also, I'm by no means a pro pianist so maybe I'm just not mature enough to appreciate it yet.

I tend to gravitate towards songs with a more pronounced melodic line, and the Gm ballade hits the spot at that better than Fm, in my opinion. The Gm melody is full of power and beauty, and it deeply resonates with me. On a surface listening, Fm sounds more jumbled and has a less clear direction; I'm sure it has structure but it's hard to hear the structure on a first listen-through. Gm constantly returns to the same theme, developing it, and has a clear story arc that culminates in the awesome coda (it's ab-ab-ab structure reminds me of La Campanella).

I'm sure my opinions on these pieces may change as the years go by, especially after I learn them. All of Chopin's ballades are incredible works of music.

[dizzyfingers]

The Gm melody is full of power and beauty, and it deeply resonates with me. On a surface listening, Fm sounds more jumbled and has a less clear direction; I'm sure it has structure but it's hard to hear the structure on a first listen-through. Gm constantly returns to the same theme, developing it, and has a clear story arc that culminates in the awesome coda (it's ab-ab-ab structure reminds me of La Campanella).

Thanks for being transparent with your exposure to these pieces (not "songs", lol).
You clearly resonate with the gm ballade - that's awesome.
The 4th ballade is more complex and subtle - it takes more listens than the 1st to fully absorb it (I think most would agree with me on that).
I've played all the ballades except the f minor, will do that soon. 
I've heard both played by many different pianists.

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Gm constantly returns to the same theme, developing it, and has a clear story arc that culminates in the awesome coda (it's ab-ab-ab structure reminds me of La Campanella).

Off-topic, but if you want to talk about incredible codas, I highly recommend Alkan's Concerto mvt. 3 (video 1), Liszt's S. 140 no. 3 (video 2), Saint-Saëns' Op. 111 no. 6 "Toccata d'Aprés le Cenquième Concerto (video 3), and Liszt's S. 420 La Clochette (video 4).

All of them are vastly superior to B1's coda, at least IMO.

Edit: fixed the links.

[jesujuva]

Thanks for being transparent with your exposure to these pieces (not "songs", lol).
You clearly resonate with the gm ballade - that's awesome.
The 4th ballade is more complex and subtle - it takes more listens than the 1st to fully absorb it (I think most would agree with me on that).

Yeah "pieces" I know. Not sure what happened there on my end.

Good to know about Ballade 4. I'll keep listening to it.

[jesujuva]

Off-topic, but if you want to talk about incredible codas, I highly recommend Alkan's Concerto mvt. 3 (video 1), Liszt's S. 140 no. 3 (video 2), Saint-Saëns' Op. 111 no. 6 "Toccata d'Aprés le Cenquième Concerto (video 3), and Liszt's S. 420 La Clochette (video 4).

Wow those are awesome! I knew about the earlier La Campanella but not the other ones. Thanks!

[essence]

Yeah "pieces" I know. Not sure what happened there on my end.

Good to know about Ballade 4. I'll keep listening to it.

Ballade 4 is very difficult technically and to interpret. Take the first two bars. Diminuendo on lh, crescendo on rh. What is it trying to say, all those G's starting an F minor piece? Establishing a tempo but also rubato? It's like an improvisation.

So you are immediately thrown into a much more complex and rewarding piece.

[transitional]

"Fun to play" might be another criteria in considering enjoyment. I recently took a few looks at his 2nd Scherzo and was surprised at how much I could do. It's lots of repetition and fits under the hand really well.

[pianistavt]

"Fun to play" might be another criteria in considering enjoyment. I recently took a few looks at his 2nd Scherzo and was surprised at how much I could do. It's lots of repetition and fits under the hand really well.

Don't get me started on the 2nd scherzo, lol. I practiced it for most of 2024.
I think it fits under the hand well, M O S T L Y.
The hand movements for the final section of the development are really interesting when played at tempo
- have to move the hands up/down/up/down across the keyboard repeatedly
- have to be ultra relaxed yet with a strong-forte-bravura touch
(see image)
The preceding sweeping arpeggios are a bit of a mountain too.
I haven't recorded the whole thing satisfactorily (yet), just snippets:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7WZ6Dgu990/

It IS fun/exciting to play, as is a lot of Chopin.  And Liszt?

[essence]

Yes, I have always had fun playing this. But the bit you had on instagram I always found very tricky - maybe because I was trying to emulate Moiseivitch and others who play it at twice the speed you were playing, with a rythmic LH and tinkly RH.

[pianistavt]

Yes, I have always had fun playing this. But the bit you had on instagram I always found very tricky - maybe because I was trying to emulate Moiseivitch and others who play it at twice the speed you were playing, with a rythmic LH and tinkly RH.

Keep trying?
Personally, I know better than to aspire to that level, naivete has it's uses

[essence]

I think the main problem is speed, volume, lightness of touch, coordination between hands, pedalling, rhythm, and something else I forget! Oh yes, jumps in LH at that speed.

This isn;t the recording I have, but makes my point! From 4:00.

Nice to see he is human, and came unstuck from 6:00. The record I have is a recording, this may have been live.

i=NurIZwZRSdPeZnKN

[dizzyfingers]

 :'(

[satoru]

Why is no one talking about the Heroic Polonaise?Although not as difficult or complex as the Ballades, it is still one of Chopin’s greatest works. Rubinstein said it was "the composition which is the closest to my heart."(totally not stolen from wikipedia)

[essence]

I was curious, I knew Moiseweitch had a better recording of the scherzos, I have the records, but only just found them on youtube. Absolutely stunning.

Maybe not so exciting, but also no going off the rails!

The 4th Scherzo and ballade are even better.

I was very lucky that these performances were my introduction to chopin.

It seems they are not available by sharing on youtube. Do a search on youtube for

moiseiwitch chopin recital

side A and side B

Or search for Moiseiwitch SXLP 30075

[ravelpin]

I think that the Fantasy in F is amazing and also the nocturne op 48 no1 is very profound. I love the polonaise brilliante - even though its one of his earlier works, think it is so lively and beautiful.

[bruceszhou]

Might not be the best one, but I think the Allegro de Concert is seriously underrated

[ned174849]

In my opinion, the greatest of Chopin’s output is found in his later compositions. His polonaise Fantasie op 61, op 62 nocturnes, Barcarolle op 60, the fourth Ballade as well as his fourth scherzo, and of course his third piano sonata are all undoubtedly masterpieces.

[pianistavt]

I heard a very gifted pianist (Dmitry Shishkin) play Nocturne opus 9 #3 in B the other day.
I think it was from the 2015 Chopin competition.
This piece is a tapestry of melodic, harmonic and rhythmic color, subtle and complex, shows Chopin's genius at an early age.

[transitional]

This is a pretty overdone conversation, but I keep having more things to say about it. One thing I realized with Chopin is that I'm kind of starting to gravitate more and more towards the later works. I used to think I straight up didn't like Chopin because of some of the simpler preludes and early nocturnes (I still like 9/3 though @pianistavt). Ballade 1 is kind of wearing off on me a lot, and even Ballade 3 isn't my absolute favorite Chopin piece (though it's around even with 4). The Polonaise Fantaisie, Ballade 4, and F minor Fantaisie are all really growing on me. I don't know how I'll feel about those in a couple years, but my taste is starting to get more and more contemporary.

[dizzyfingers]

In my opinion, the greatest of Chopin’s output is found in his later compositions. His polonaise Fantasie op 61, op 62 nocturnes, Barcarolle op 60, the fourth Ballade as well as his fourth scherzo, and of course his third piano sonata are all undoubtedly masterpieces.

Yes to this and Transitional's comment - - what if Chopin had lived in health for even 3 or 4 more years - what wonders would we have?

[lelle]

This is a pretty overdone conversation, but I keep having more things to say about it. One thing I realized with Chopin is that I'm kind of starting to gravitate more and more towards the later works. I used to think I straight up didn't like Chopin because of some of the simpler preludes and early nocturnes (I still like 9/3 though @pianistavt). Ballade 1 is kind of wearing off on me a lot, and even Ballade 3 isn't my absolute favorite Chopin piece (though it's around even with 4). The Polonaise Fantaisie, Ballade 4, and F minor Fantaisie are all really growing on me. I don't know how I'll feel about those in a couple years, but my taste is starting to get more and more contemporary.

I think this is common. Many of his early pieces are pretty and catchy and immediate and therefore appeal to young people in particular. His later pieces take some time to reveal themselves and get more interesting as you age and experience things. I'm not super interested in pieces such as the first Nocturne Op. 9 no. 1 anymore for example. The Polonaise-Fantaisie, which I thought was hella dull in my teens, has now become one of my favorites.

[marband]

Préludes Op. 28, in my opinion.

[liszt-and-the-galops]

It's been a bit since I posted in this thread, so I'll just update my list:
Scherzo no. 2, Ballade nos. 2 and 4, Op. 10 nos. 1, 8, and 9, Op 25 nos. 1 and 9, Sonata no. 3.