Can you learn advanced piano techniques without a teacher?

[musicalpenguin]

Hello everyone, I've recently picked up piano playing after a 20 year hiatus, and I'm loving it so much that I'm practicing 2-3 hours a day. I was wondering if I can learn to play the advanced pieces that require various techniques by practicing them myself, or if I should try to look for a piano teacher. My history with piano:
- took piano lessons from age 5-8 in South Korea
- performed Mozart's Rondo Alla Turca during this time
- immigrated to US, had very little piano lessons
- auditioned and got into a music program in college where I learned a few of Mozart sonatas and performed them including Sonata 13 and 14a.
- stopped for 20 years because I had no access to a piano.

I have no idea what my current level is, but I enjoyed learning Beethoven's Pathetique 1st movement which took about 3 days but needs a ton of polishing. I also finished learning Tempest 3rd movement (technically more difficult than Pathetique 1st I feel). There are so many music pieces I have on my goal list, including Waldstein sonata, Appasionata sonata, Chopin's Etudes and Ballades, Chopin's fantasie impromptu, and many others.

The technique issue came to mind because I'm tacking Moonlight sonata 3rd movement, and it's been very difficult. I'm not used to playing music in C sharp minor, and it takes time to read the notes and also to be able to play each passage. For this piece for example, if I keep at it and do exercises from czerney, clementi, hanon, etc - would I be able to play decently with the required techniques? How do you get to that level?

[dizzyfingers]

That's a good question.

It should be obvious that things will go better with a skilled teacher, preferably one with a proven track record (students successfully auditioning for music schools).
If for some reason an in-person teacher is not available, I would consider online instruction, even subscribing to the pre-packaged courses, like this one: 

https://pianoskillsandmagic.teachable.com

.. so that you learn the fundamentals correctly and avoid bad habits. 

Another, more interactive piano learning community:

https://www.aaronpetitpiano.com/keylearnerspianoclub

You can go ahead on your own, sounds like you will have success in learning music.  How well you play these pieces is another matter.  We can't tell without recordings.

[lostinidlewonder]

The simple answer is yes, but curiously those who ask generally require a teacher. If you are an autodidact you generally feel quite confident in being able to internalize and improve upon technique yourself perhaps with a few guiding pointers found in words or in video/audio. Generally a piano autodidact would want to insulate themselves completely or at least curate exactly what info they expose themselves to. They solve as much as they can before asking questions, and in fact many traditional ideologies might be something very difficult for them to accept if it doesn't fall in line with their successful experimentation experiences.

So the fact you are asking questions tends towards you needing a teacher to bounce ideas off. Asking random info from a forum isn't generally what autodidacts look for.

[ranjit]

The simple answer is yes, but curiously those who ask generally require a teacher. If you are an autodidact you generally feel quite confident in being able to internalize and improve upon technique yourself perhaps with a few guiding pointers found in words or in video/audio. Generally a piano autodidact would want to insulate themselves completely or at least curate exactly what info they expose themselves to. They solve as much as they can before asking questions, and in fact many traditional ideologies might be something very difficult for them to accept if it doesn't fall in line with their successful experimentation experiences.

This is a very interesting observation. I've also followed this pattern without realizing it -- it feels like those who trust themselves to learn new things quickly and accurately just do so, curate the information they get, and then ask specific questions right off the bat.

I believe my questions at the starting were more along the lines of: Why can't you play scales at 200bpm within a year? You can isolate scale movements into groups of 3s and 4s generally, and it's not that difficult to wiggle your fingers at a very fast speed. There seem to be a very small number of possible motions in a very constrained problem space, which you should be able to train yourself to do, etc.

I think autodidacts tend not to ask and just do to begin with -- with a caveat. The caveat is that it seems like imposter syndrome is prevalent among them as well. So it isn't true that an autodidact wouldn't generally ask if it's possible to learn technique on their own because they are unsure whether their line of approach will bear fruit. But I have to agree with liw here overall -- that has been my observation as well.

Furthermore, it's interesting how many of them end up being drawn to the same resources. I've met several people who attempted to teach themselves from C Chang's book.

[musicalpenguin]

Furthermore, it's interesting how many of them end up being drawn to the same resources. I've met several people who attempted to teach themselves from C Chang's book.

Thank you to all who have left insightful comments on this question, I really appreciate it. I just chuckled at this comment as another person who bought C Chang's book for this purpose. 

[lostinidlewonder]

So it isn't true that an autodidact wouldn't generally ask if it's possible to learn technique on their own because they are unsure whether their line of approach will bear fruit.

I think they generally avoid asking this kind of question because they are busily solving the problem and when it comes to piano they are doing it with multiple situations over a long period of time. I guess if they get to a point where there isn't anything else to progress on or they don't know how to solve something then they will naturally seek more direct external information. Autodidacts tend to treat external input as a tool not a starting point

From what I have experienced, unwanted outside information can often be interrupting and irritating to the autodidact who is more confident solving something on their own. This doesn't mean they're arrogant it means their cognitive process is self-motivated and they value internal understanding over external authority. I have taught a few whom preferred if I commented on their experimentations rather than suggest alternative approaches and it has been quite interesting that through critiquing their approach and postulating on its limitations that they often are better helped to find other pathways themselves.  So critique vs redirection is an important aspect to consider, autodidacts hate redirection and rather critique.

Id say the vast vast majority of excellent pianists are autodidacts to some extent. I think everyone who learns the piano must experiment and iterate ideas given to them through the lens of their own understanding, we even find situations where we must actually come up with a personal solution that might be a tangent from the solution suggested to us. That is quite a normal process of piano learning and learning as a whole I believe. Complete autodidacts however take this to an extreme.