Do you memorize as you learn a new piece?

[musicalpenguin]

I recently picked back up playing piano after a long hiatus, and do not have a teacher but I've been very interested in learning smart practice methods by myself. I've started reading through C Chang's book on fundamentals of piano practice, and he says to memorize a piece as you're learning - otherwise you're doing the work twice to learn it first, and then try to memorize after.

I'm trying this out with Beethoven Op 13 (pathetique) 3rd movement, and I'm surprised at how fast I'm getting the fingering down when the section is memorized, and how it sounds less like playing piano, but more like playing music. I'm a newbie in this regard, I was wondering if seasoned piano players do this regularly with pieces they're not performing. Do you find it a more efficient way to learn a new piece to learn/memorize at the same time? And do you do this for every new piece you learn, or would you consider that a waste of time?

When I was little, I was never taught to do this - only to memorize after learning if I'm performing the piece.

[brogers70]

I never do any separate work to memorize a piece, I always memorize as I'm learning it.

[lelle]

For me "learning" implies memorization together with mastering technical difficulties and shaping an interpretation. I find it difficult to conceive what "learning" might mean if it does not include memorization. Like what are you learning exactly?

[musicalpenguin]

For me "learning" implies memorization together with mastering technical difficulties and shaping an interpretation. I find it difficult to conceive what "learning" might mean if it does not include memorization. Like what are you learning exactly?

Interesting, maybe it's my lack of experience distinguishing the two. For example, I can learn to play the notes in Tchaikovsky's June, but not necessarily memorized. Some passages may be memorized by muscle memory, but not all. For me in order to memorize something, I need to actively put brain energy into it, use different methods for creating memory and keep practicing passages without looking at the music, and really think about the chords and melody. But I can play just to learn how to play the notes hands together and not necessarily actively use memorization techniques.. perhaps this means I have not truly learned it? 

[essence]

I've never memorised anything.

I may be able to play the opening few bars of the Chopin revolutionary study, or the first bars of the Schubert B flat sonata.

That's it.

At primary/prep school, I was the only one who coul dnot learn Blake's 'tyger, Tyger'. I was forced to recite it every day to the teacher for the following week.

My current memory of it - 'Tyger, Tyger, burning bright, in the middle of the night'.

Doesn't mean to say I couldn't attain high (scientific) academic qualifications or career.

Interestingly, my organ/piano teacher at school, Peter Smith, who went on to be head of piano at Eton, performed the Schumann concerto with sheet music with a semi-professional orchestra.

His organ improvisations were always melodic.but maybe they weren;t as improvisory as I had originally thought!

[brogers70]

Interesting, maybe it's my lack of experience distinguishing the two. For example, I can learn to play the notes in Tchaikovsky's June, but not necessarily memorized. Some passages may be memorized by muscle memory, but not all. For me in order to memorize something, I need to actively put brain energy into it, use different methods for creating memory and keep practicing passages without looking at the music, and really think about the chords and melody. But I can play just to learn how to play the notes hands together and not necessarily actively use memorization techniques.. perhaps this means I have not truly learned it?

When I learn a piece I (more or less automatically) identify the chords and aspects of the form - things like, "OK here's the second theme and it's in the dominant, so probably it will show up in the tonic in the recapitulation" - places where a theme or idea is repeated but the key or voicing is changed - things like "Ah ha this is just like a few bars back, but it's in the subdominant and the bass is doubled in octaves." All those kinds of observations supplement muscle memory and, for me, anyway, they are just part of learning a piece. The more you practice thinking this way as you learn a piece, the more automatic it will become.

[essence]

Maybe as an aside - as an organist, we are meant to be able to transpose at sight. Apparently, it is easier to do so by understanding the harmonies and relationships between chords, rather than transposing each note in turn.

I couldn't do it either way, and failed my ARCO exam (as did most entrants).

[frodo10]

When I learn a piece I (more or less automatically) identify the chords and aspects of the form - things like, "OK here's the second theme and it's in the dominant, so probably it will show up in the tonic in the recapitulation" - places where a theme or idea is repeated but the key or voicing is changed - things like "Ah ha this is just like a few bars back, but it's in the subdominant and the bass is doubled in octaves." All those kinds of observations supplement muscle memory and, for me, anyway, they are just part of learning a piece. The more you practice thinking this way as you learn a piece, the more automatic it will become.

Sounds like a great way to do this.  Muscle memory can lead you astray in many situations.

[psipsi8]

Wow, this is the first time I heard about memorizing as the piece is being learned. Throughout all my years of piano lessons, I always played with the score and only when the piece was due to be performed, or for exams, did I memorize it. But it was already in great shape. I also took a long break from playing the piano and now I can't for the life of me remember how exactly I went about memorizing pieces, only that I didn't find it difficult. But that was a long time ago. Now, I seriously don't know what to do! I think it involved a combination of playing without looking at the notes but having them there for security and referring to them less often as the piece was being memorized.

[pianistavt]

Yes, I try to start memorizing as soon as I have the notes learned and I can look away with any minor degree of confidence. I have found that memorizing is essential for performing challenging music well.  It's also an interesting mental challenge which can be a rewarding to explore in its own right.

[david-g]

I have never committed a piece to memory.  I always play from the score.  I have no interest in memorising; I would rather put my efforts into learning to play pieces fluently.