Practice feeling like a grind

[lostinidlewonder]

When not placing my fingers on the table (i.e. they are all up in the air) i can raise finger 2 with no noticable movement in other fingers, finger 3  with no movement n fingers 4 and 5, and maybe 1/4" movement in finger 2, finger 5 with maybe 1/22 movement in finger 4 and 1/4" movement in fingers 2 and 3.

Youre doing a single movement with constrained action is meaningless. Why don't you move that finger up and down continuously and see if the same occurs, I bet it cannot without creating tension to freeze the other fingers. That is what playing piano is, just not a raising a finger.

Shall I make a video? Can you experiment and provide feedback?

Sure do one where youre moving up and down with one finger with some velocity and depressing a key. Although a video wont show the tension in your hand forcing the other fingers not to move. Show playing a piece with this restricted motion and seen if it serves you well, it won't and it's not possible unless you have a robot hand.

In addition, I think you may be mistaken - you say

" i clearly said he's not being clear in the quote"

but is it the quote which is misleading, or his original text? frodo10 him/herself clearly correct the original quote. It was within the context of 'touch and press'. This would be a bit similar to my test of placing fingers on a table, but a table is a bit more resistant.

I had to suggest what that improvement was at first before it was given. Also I said piano playing isn't about holding down notes or constantly having fingers in contact with the keyboard, so my position still stands as valid critique.

Let me go to a piano....

Yes, when lightly touching keys with all fingers, i can play each note without movement from other fingers.

Case solved.

Case not solved, playing the piano isn't like this, it's a contextual restriction or are you saying all piano playing your fingers always are in contact with the keyboard lol?

[frodo10]

What garbage. Why are you being a source for such negativity and gatekeeping? Youre not in the position to even judge such things, and professional teacher would be wary, you are not even a qualified teacher to give such advice. Ridiculous. Ranjit plays better than you and youre trying to tell him what he can't do lol.
You only see snippets he shares that are works in progress and you think you can define his entire future potential? Hilarious. No idea who you are trying to be but it's not nconvincing. Maybe create a frodo11 account and try again lol.

Let's see him pass RCM test 5.  Any reason he is not taking such tests?

[lostinidlewonder]

Let's see him pass RCM test 5.  Any reason he is not taking such tests?

Let's see you pass the logical test and not talk past others.

[frodo10]

Let's see you pass the logical test and not talk past others.

Exactly what kind of teacher are you?  You should be encouraging Ranjit to take these tests.  How is he going to pass a conservatory audition?  The tests are designed to prepare one for an audition.  Ranjit can use some theory instruction as well.

I'm offf to get a dental crown now.  We can resume our discussion when I get back.

[lostinidlewonder]

Exactly what kind of teacher are you?  You should be encouraging Ranjit to take these tests. 

Why are you assuming I havent in the years of discussion I've privately had with him? What kind of non-teacher are you telling others what they can and can't do?

How is he going to pass a conservatory audition?  The tests are designed to prepare one for an audition.  Ranjit can use some theory instruction as well.

You've never done such things either so why do you feel qualified to guess what's required?

I'm offf to get a dental crown now.  We can resume our discussion when I get back.

Pretty irrelevant info, although in line with some of your other comment patterns.

[essence]

Youre doing a single movement with constrained action is meaningless. Why don't you move that finger up and down continuously and see if the same occurs, I bet it cannot without creating tension to freeze the other fingers. That is what playing piano is, just not a raising a finger.

yes I can do it, and there is no tension in other fingers. at least I can with fingers 2 and 3. I have a bit of arthritis or something in finger 4.

how much do you bet? 

Just to show I am not a complete fraud, i just recorded the Schubert. It was with no practice, no warm up, mobile phone next to untuned piano, obvious mistakes and disasters.

so, awaiting embarrassment:

[essence]

Another one, while I am at it.

I realise notes not always together. And still some lumpiness, and incorrect notes. but I think the spirit is there. Haven't played this for about 40 years.

I really don;t practice much nowadays,I am71 years old, only playing a bit because I am out of work at present. My hands are cold and old.

So that ears and mind can be cleaned, here is Richter. Even he is not perfect - maybe. Who wants perfection?

i=OPbdzEHP2f_cNnNM

[essence]

A very different performance by brendel.

i=IBcO3Zwv8IWYw3Iz

Listen at 2:40 or so. Note the pp, and the melody in RH and LH. Impossible without finger independence.

[essence]

Going back to the original post, how many hours of practice did it take Brendel or Richter to get to this level? On top of an existing highly polished technique?

What was their desire level? in both cases very high. In Brendel's case, I think he practised many many hours. i once attended a small concert given by him of Schubert sonatas, and he could be heard practising before the concert in an adjoining room. getting those opening chords of the G major balanced as he wanted.

[lostinidlewonder]

yes I can do it, and there is no tension in other fingers. at least I can with fingers 2 and 3. I have a bit of arthritis or something in finger 4.

how much do you bet? 

Just to show I am not a complete fraud, i just recorded the Schubert. It was with no practice, no warm up, mobile phone next to untuned piano, obvious mistakes and disasters.

so, awaiting embarrassment:

I think there is some misunderstanding between us. I am not claiming finger independence does not exist. I am saying that the idea of moving one finger while the others are completely frozen is a very specific and unrealistic requirement. Expecting fingers to be utterly uninfluenced by one another, absolute anatomical isolation, is simply not physiologically realistic because of the shared tendons and muscular linkages in the hand. What pianists really develop is functional independence, the ability to control each finger in a coordinated and practical way.

Even when it looks like a finger is completely still, for example holding down a key or resting on the surface, it is not actually motionless. The key itself applies a reactive force that suppresses the finger’s natural movement, so the apparent stillness is not because the finger is isolated, but because it is stabilized externally.

Even if someone could somehow lock the other fingers in place completely, it would not make them a better pianist. Control, coordination relaxed, efficient movement matter far more than rigidity disguised as independence.

[essence]

Yes, i think we are probably agreeing.

I have no idea - is a non-pianist able to move a finger, with the hand in the air, with only a small movement of other fingers? I think not.

Similarly, a beginner pianist may struggle to move two fingers (2/3 or 3/5) together. It is only after many hours practising Chopin op 25/6 that my rh has any chance doing this, my lh finds it more difficult, i find more tension.

we are getting rather off topic, but finger independence is surely fundamental to polishing pieces, hence my example of the Schubert. a beginner can play the chords, but cannot balance them, cannot sing the top note, cannot bring out middles notes of the LH. So it may take them years to develop the technique to do it to their satisfaction? Maybe?

Pianists in the pop/rock world do not have this ability in general, the chords are hammered out, although Elton Jonh as a decent pianist (went to RAM or RCM).

Alicia Keys - where exactly did she train? Maybe she unrefines her piano technique for the pop world.

i=g9tnzvjnSQajgi9S

[essence]

Confirmed.

Classically trained? She has zero finger independence. Melody even disappears every now and then.

i=WVobLG-43is57dpz

[ranjit]

You only see snippets he shares that are works in progress

Just wanted to add to this. Most of my posts on Pianostreet are not of polished performances (some of which do exist), but trying out things that are interesting: improvisations, and interpreting things differently than I'm used to, and seeing how people respond and what thoughts they have. For instance, the super-speed Schubert impromptu A section was not how I always play it, but something I had been trying out for the past few days at the point where I recorded it. I've also been learning quite a bit of repertoire, so I've often only worked for a month or so on those pieces.

[ranjit]

I have no idea - is a non-pianist able to move a finger, with the hand in the air, with only a small movement of other fingers? I think not.

I'm pretty sure I could do this when I started, including moving the 24 and 35 and keeping the others relatively still. However, it was much less refined than it is now, and it constantly gets better. I couldn't do a 45 trill when I started but I can now, for instance.

[frodo10]

Ranjit - Do you still want to enter a conservatory?

If yes: Why aren't you taking RCM or ABSRM exams?   Do you realize that taking these exams will give you unbiased feedback from experts on your progress?  Don't you want to know how well you are actually doing based on the unbiased experts' evaluation? 

If you are working to enter a conservatory: Let's say you are unable to pass RCM #5, then you know you cannot enter a conservatory since you need to at least be able to pass #10.  If you can't pass #5, wouldn't you want to know this so you can make modifications to how you practice, etc.  Isn't knowledge a good thing?

[ranjit]

Do you still want to enter a conservatory?

If yes: Why aren't you taking RCM or ABSRM exams?   Do you realize that taking these exams will give you unbiased feedback from experts on your progress?  Don't you want to know how well you are actually doing based on the unbiased experts' evaluation? 

If you are working to enter a conservatory: Let's say you are unable to pass RCM #5, then you know you cannot enter a conservatory since you need to at least be able to pass #10.  If you can't pass #5, wouldn't you want to know this so you can make modifications to how you practice, etc.  Isn't knowledge a good thing?

I never said I'm planning to enter a conservatory, that was just an example liw gave.

I have excellent teachers and am not looking for technical guidance at the moment. Also, you have no real idea of how I play, and are not an advanced pianist yourself. It looks to me like you are hyperfixated on a very specific aspect of piano playing, and think you know more than you actually do. You keep advertising a book to the point where one wonders if you are affiliated with the author. I have not only encountered that specific method for developing finger independence but quite possibly dozens of others, the idea to play one finger while keeping the others as still as possible within reason is fairly obvious and unsophisticated. And you fail to acknowledge that that is not what is going on physically since the fingers share tendons and only the thumb is really truly independent from the point of view of the musculature involved.

[frodo10]

I never said I'm planning to enter a conservatory, that was just an example liw gave.

I have excellent teachers and am not looking for technical guidance at the moment. Also, you have no real idea of how I play, and are not an advanced pianist yourself. It looks to me like you are hyperfixated on a very specific aspect of piano playing, and think you know more than you actually do. You keep advertising a book to the point where one wonders if you are affiliated with the author. I have not only encountered that specific method for developing finger independence but quite possibly dozens of others, the idea to play one finger while keeping the others as still as possible within reason is fairly obvious and unsophisticated. And you fail to acknowledge that that is not what is going on physically since the fingers share tendons and only the thumb is really truly independent from the point of view of the musculature involved.

Forget the McLachlan then!!  I was actually much more interested in hearing a nice clean performance by you of the Bach B-flat major invention that you posted about 1.6 years ago and was trying to figure out how I could help to get you there.  But if you are not planning to enter a conservatory - forget the B-flat major invention also!!

You are talented - no doubt.  If no conservatory plans then keep doing what you are doing!  Keep up with your improvisations - they are great!   And for the maybe 10th time    HAVE FUN!   

EDIT:
If you are practicing - keep asking yourself - am I having fun?  If the answer is no, stop and do something that's fun.  If you don't enjoy polishing a piece - then don't polish it. 

[frodo10]

.

[lostinidlewonder]

Fwiw ranjit easily could enter a conservatory if he really wanted to. Just because it's not his primary current goal doesn't mean he can't do it. I've seen plenty conservatory students not play with high levels of mastery and still get by.  Who's to say all conservatory students play with epic mastery and get 90%+ for all their performance examinations??? That'd be news to me.

This is the problem when making guesses about someone based on the small windows you see presented. The real question was how to polished so pieces represent mastery without that process feeling tedious. As a teacher I just show the students the work and the efficient pathway towards it through their learning experience, of course the lessons are only a small % of the effort to accomplish it though. Many of my young students are motivated by what they get if they accomplish high levels of mastery, their parents get them all sorts of rewards. I think that's perfectly fine motivators, not everyone is so nobel and treats piano itself as the reward!

For adults who might not be inspired to study hard because they get some reward they need to question certain things to motivate themselves. Honestly I think there is no reason to do it, there's really no reason to play piano well if we are just looking in a vaccum where its piano and ones self only. Not unless piano is your one and only interest which seems rather an imbalanced life to lead.

Would I have done piano so much if I couldn't make a career out of it? Likely not! Sure I love piano but I'd not have worked so hard with it if there was no career in it for me, if there was nothing I felt I could give to others that was somewhat valuable. I had a successful concerting career but it was a dead end for me personally because just performing felt shallow to me. Education always interested me which made me study piano even harder than when I was performing. So my career in education made me study piano and polished pieces to high mastery with countless students over the years.

If I didn't have to work and could play piano all day would I do that? Likely not too! I have many more interests than just piano. Though I enjoy the polishing process and mastering pieces I get more joy sight reading thousands of works each year and playing them decently. Then maybe choose a few to play at a high standard. But simply polishing pieces all day? Is thst even the only aim for pianists? Heck I can play pieces by sight at top mastery without any need to polish. Super virtuoso pieces I can't but with enough read through they come close and then the polishing is actually not a huge amount, but it still doesn't interst me. When I was concerting audiences didn't necessarily connect better with virtuosity, now that's a hard less for many aspiring pianists. A concert playing video game music these days would sell better than a classical concert lol!

So really some sort of motivation outside of yourself needs to push you to do something. Polishing works when I was conceeting and when I'm teaching is important beyond my own needs but to be a service for others. Maybe that's a crticial part of it all? It’s the difference between:

“I’m perfecting this phrase for myself” (which can feel endless and tedious), versus

“I’m perfecting this phrase so someone else experiences it fully” (which gives more urgency and deeper purpose).

[frodo10]

Fwiw ranjit easily could enter a conservatory if he really wanted to. Just because it's not his primary current goal doesn't mean he can't do it. I've seen plenty conservatory students not play with high levels of mastery and still get by.  Who's to say all conservatory students play with epic mastery and get 90%+ for all their performance examinations??? That'd be news to me.

This is the problem when making guesses about someone based on the small windows you see presented. The real question was how to polished so pieces represent mastery without that process feeling tedious. As a teacher I just show the students the work a d the pathway towards it, of course the lessons are only a small % of the effort to accomplish it though. Many of my young stufents are motivated by what they get if they accomplish high levels of mastery, their parents get them all sorts of rewards. I think that's perfectly fine motivators, not everyone is so nobel and treats piano itself as the reward!

For adults who might not be inspired to study hard because they get some reward they need to question certain things to motivate themselves. Honestly I think there is no reason to do it, there's really no reason to play piano well if we are just looking in a vaccum where its piano and ones self only.

Would I have done piano so much if I couldn't make a career out of it? Likely not! Sure I love piano but I'd not have worked so hard with it if there was no career in it for me, if there was nothing I felt I could give to others that was somewhat valuable. I had a successful cocnerting career but it was a dead end for me personally because just performing felt shallow to me. Education always interested me which made me study piano even harder than when I was performing. So my career in education made me study piano and polished pieces to high mastery with countless students over the years.

If I didn't have to work and could play piano all day would I do that? Likely not too! I have many more interests than just piano. Though I enjoy the polishing process and mastering pieces I get more joy sight reading thousands of works each year and playing them decently. Then maybe choose a few to play at a high standard. But simply polishing pieces all day? Is thst even the only aim for pianists? Heck I can play pieces by sight at top mastery without any need to polish. Super virtuoso pieces I can't but with enough read through they come close and then the polishing is actually not a huge amount, but it still doesn't interst me. When I was concerting audiences didn't necessarily connect better with virtuosity, now that's a hard less for many aspiring pianists. A concert playing video game music these days would sell better than a classical concert lol!

So really some sort of motivation outside of yourself needs to push you to do something. Polishing works when I was conceeting and when I'm teaching is important beyond my own needs but to be a service for others. Maybe that's a crticial part of it all?

Thank you.  Can you please comment on RCM or ABSRM exams and the roll they play in developing an aspiring artist?

[lostinidlewonder]

Thank you.  Can you please comment on RCM or ABSRM exams and the roll they play in developing an aspiring artist?

They can certainly help as indicators and improve motivation but they are not necessarily for every artist if we want to focus in on that. I know plenty of professional pianists who haven't sat a single exam, a larger amount in the non-classical realms for sure.

The problem with these exam bodies is that they do not measure rate of learning  they only measure the product of. In professional piano life we have time limitations, at conservatories too, studying a degree you just complete units within a specific time. These are not measured in exams and is a real tripping point for many.

Many classical pianists who study at university here in Australia will have done some exams at least, its rare not to come across it. It's good for them to learn to prepare for an exam within a year and then sit it, it provides some kind of time restriction at least and feedback from another examiner. But I assure you I've taught a few who have reached the diploma levels but couldn't cope with a degree in music because it's a different format, the time limitations can be quite difficult for some. Its why I said conservatory students don't all play with huge amounts of mastery, often the time limitations don't allow for it, but they do a decent job usually.

[dizzyfingers]

I think learning new music is a grind.
That's my least enjoyable phase - such drudgery, learning the notes, rhythm, etc., and it takes a lot of energy!  Usually exhausts me.
I have to learn new pieces because of the commitments I make to others, if it were just a piece I wanted to learn for myself, it wouldn't be as much of a grind, I would play the piece when I wanted to.

Anyone else relate?

[ranjit]

I think learning new music is a grind.
That's my least enjoyable phase - such drudgery, learning the notes, rhythm, etc., and it takes a lot of energy!  Usually exhausts me.
I have to learn new pieces because of the commitments I make to others, if it were just a piece I wanted to learn for myself, it wouldn't be as much of a grind, I would place the piece when I wanted to.

Anyone else relate?

Interestingly enough, learning new music to me generally feels pretty enjoyable. The initial momentum where a piece goes from zero to mostly playable in a week or two is the most fun part for me, I would say.

[dizzyfingers]

Interestingly enough, learning new music to me generally feels pretty enjoyable. The initial momentum where a piece goes from zero to mostly playable in a week or two is the most fun part for me, I would say.

Interesting!  People can be so different ...

[orgarnic]

Continuing on this topic, how long does it generally take to learn a piece at your skill level or a little above?

I feel like I'm a slow learner in the piano department; I can finish a piece in like 3 weeks or so without procrastinating, and then the polishing feels like it's never really "done", as I am continuing to learn new things about the piece.

I just want someone to share how long it generally takes to play a piece at a high standard.

[lilypad]

I would rate myself early intermediate.  It takes me around 3 weeks on average to learn a piece.  Polishing it, especially if I want to make a recorded performance, takes around 3 months.  I understand that at more advanced levels, the pieces can take much longer to learn and wonder if the roughly 1 to 3 learning to polishing ratio remains similar. 

[dizzyfingers]

Continuing on this topic, how long does it generally take to learn a piece at your skill level or a little above?

I feel like I'm a slow learner in the piano department; I can finish a piece in like 3 weeks or so without procrastinating, and then the polishing feels like it's never really "done", as I am continuing to learn new things about the piece.

I just want someone to share how long it generally takes to play a piece at a high standard.

Another factor, besides difficulty, is how long the piece is, and whether any of the material is repeated.
I agree - it's difficult to say when a piece is "done", polishing can go on for a long time.  One way to "finish" a piece is to perform it, or record it (to your personal satisfaction, you don't have to share it).

Personally, since my piano journey is about enjoying the daily practicing, I never think about how long a piece is taking me.  Sure I could try to calculate it.  But it's not about weeks, it's about hours.  Spending an hour per day for two weeks is 14 hours - - a lot different from practicing it 6 times in those two weeks, 6 hours.

I've noticed quite a few beginner pianists here and on FB get focused on how quickly they are progressing and what level they are at, on ABRSM or something.  I was the same, though I was just a kid back then. Maybe it's because I'm an older advanced pianist that I focus on enjoying the music and process.

[yqxpiano]

I can play through ABRSM 8+ and haven’t needed to take any keyboard exams... I take one now only because so I can have an exam done lol.

I did take theory exams, but only so I could do that one exam.

The main point of the exam is the shiny certificate or whatever recognition you get for me.

[orgarnic]

Honestly, the only reason I practice is because I like the music. I hear something on the internet, and then I want to play it. I'm not in it for any like certificates of achievement or bragging rights.

[dizzyfingers]

I would rate myself early intermediate.  It takes me around 3 weeks on average to learn a piece.  Polishing it, especially if I want to make a recorded performance, takes around 3 months.  I understand that at more advanced levels, the pieces can take much longer to learn and wonder if the roughly 1 to 3 learning to polishing ratio remains similar.

The harder the piece the longer polishing takes.
The more you practice per week over the years, the easier polishing gets...
But if your practice is more focused on reading than polishing, then polishing skills take longer to develop...
 = Hard to quantify these things.

[orgarnic]

I guess you're right. A lot of the questions people ask are either subjective or entirely based on the person.

[lostinidlewonder]

Time required to learn and polish becomes much easier and predictable to measure if youre playing works well within your capability. It is no wonder why time extends, it feels a real grind or is not accurately measurable if you choose something that really stretches you or throws things at you which you don't have much experience with. It is usually why learning lots of music that is within your capabilities and challenges you only a little is best to develop with, the bar raises as to what becomes easy then, saves a lot of time. Yes, challenging yourself is essential but not to the point where it overshadows fluency, consistency, and musical depth with the cost of a huge amount of time. Many easier pieces with small challenges is greater than one difficult one in terms of how much you benefit from it.

The problem with today its often very backwards, pianists are focusing on challenging themselves and only occasionally work on easier pieces. We see all sorts of talented kids play crazy pieces or people proclaiming they learn and master a Chopin etude in a week, because of this ive seen the propensity to do works far too difficult early on, it was much less before the internet, now everyone must compete to the detriment of their progress and sanity. It's actually quite astounding that many pianists exist solely within this realms of stretching their ability to such a large overreach and that the frustrations that come with piano becomes an inherent part of their learning experience and considered normal. It is so pervasive that even teachers will subject their students to such things as well!!

[dizzyfingers]

...
It's actually quite astounding that many pianists exist solely within this realms of stretching their ability to such a large overreach and that the frustrations that come with piano becomes an inherent part of their learning experience and considered normal. It is so pervasive that even teachers will subject their students to such things as well!!

This does sound astounding - and interesting - do you have any real life anecdotes?

[lostinidlewonder]

This does sound astounding - and interesting - do you have any real life anecdotes?

Well I've had some 30+ years of examples not sure if I want to actually talk exact examples since generalization is better and further reaching in this case. I've observed and taught a number of university students who are utterly over worked trying to pass their performance examinations. It goes into different degrees of being problematic, the schools might require a certain level or repertoire be shown, then the student or their tutor who they study with determines that doing certain pieces was a good idea but its been just an overstep. They then spend the year working their asses off and getting all stressed out, overloaded with tasks. Working your butt off is fine, but it needs to be done in a manageable way, there's no point in it being stressful and accompanied with failure results or poor scoring in assessments, that is utterly demoralizing and does no one good for their confidence. You can look into overambitious repertoire expectations correlating with high burnout, anxiety, and dropout rates.

This might be of interest, it echoes what I am trying to say in a more rigorous manner:
https://researchonline.rcm.ac.uk/id/eprint/2663/3/Hatfield_Williamon_2026%20Online%20First.pdf

Notably within this document:
-Music Performance Anxiety (MPA): Is the bigger Issue for drop outs. Pushing yourself beyond your comfort zone in a way that triggers anxiety is harmful.

-Deliberate Practice: helps but has limits. It improves performance and reduces quitting intentions but it doesn’t fully buffer the negative effects of high MPA. Musicians who overdo practice while anxious may still experience stress or burnout. Focused, purposeful practice is valuable, but if anxiety or pressure is high, just practicing more won’t solve the problem.

-Overstretching Yourself Can Backfire: Trying to be extremely competitive without managing anxiety can increase the risk of quitting and reduce performance quality.

Psychological factors (MPA, stress) matter more than just the number of hours or competitiveness. It’s better to combine healthy ambition with anxiety management and deliberate practice than to just push for more or compare yourself competitively.

Overall Takeaways:
- Healthy competitiveness is fine; it’s not inherently harmful.
- Overstretching yourself through anxiety or excessive pressure is what hurts performance and increases dropout risk.
- Deliberate, mindful practice and focusing on growth rather than outcomes helps you progress without burning out.
- In short: Be ambitious, but don’t let anxiety dictate your limits.


I'm always of the thought of the easiest path to complete something. Why do a triple flip if you can pass with one flip? Leave those triple flips for later when you can do it in a relaxed state. When choosing works for examinations I will often suggest to students to do the easier selections and do them very well. It is why the vast majority of my students receive a distinction or honours mark, we don't over step the mark, we play what's possible and manageable and have enough time to polish it up and safer and safer to play.

I've had plenty of transfer students in the past who come to me with pieces that I feel are far too hard for them. They truly believe that learning the piano must always be this hard and challenging and slow to complete works. They say they saw this video of this person play this piece and it has inspired them and this person learned it in 10 seconds or something stupid. They have all these competitive ideas surrounding why they want to do something and if they don't manage it they feel a failure and everyone else is better than them. It's like a false sense of what the "average" person should do and anyone below that is unworthy.

Just have a look out there on reddit or other piano message boards where people talk about learning La Campanella after 2 months of learning the piano. You know. It's just a little ridiculous. They post some video that's a snippet of some difficult piece that we normally would take 10 years to build up to to play and think that's normal. Heck I didn't touch a Chopin or Liszt etude until 10 years + of playing! I must be a failure right? lol. Well based on internet perspectives you're supposed to be able to play virtuosic pieces within a few months of playing the piano, thats normal!

So you asked for real life anecdotes, well just go on the internet and see for yourself. Maybe its the videos of 4 year olds playing virtuosic pieces that makes people go crazy?

[dizzyfingers]

Just have a look out there on reddit or other piano message boards where people talk about learning La Campanella after 2 months of learning the piano. You know. It's just a little ridiculous. They post some video that's a snippet of some difficult piece that we normally would take 10 years to build up to to play and think that's normal. Heck I didn't touch a Chopin or Liszt etude until 10 years + of playing! I must be a failure right? lol. Well based on internet perspectives you're supposed to be able to play virtuosic pieces within a few months of playing the piano, thats normal!

So you asked for real life anecdotes, well just go on the internet and see for yourself. Maybe its the videos of 4 year olds playing virtuosic pieces that makes people go crazy?

Thanks for your reply.  I don't frequent reddit, but I'll keep it in mind.

[lostinidlewonder]

Thanks for your reply.  I don't frequent reddit, but I'll keep it in mind.

Yeah it's were you’ll find most forum type posters these days. More importantly though is what doing things like that can cause, it's really a detriment to most people who get influenced by it while on their piano journey. They feel like failures trying anything less than something virtuosic or if they can't keep up with insane rates of learning being proclaimed. I'm certainly not saying don't aim for the stars but sometimes it's best to aim for the stars with a degree of "insulation" from the noise out there that gets so much attention.

[yqxpiano]

I think if the 4 year old is playing like a virtuoso you should question if they have a life.

And also, it’s kind of sad La Campanella is the flex piece of choice… like cmon that isn’t even one of liszts hardest works, you can do better