accepting your kids dont want to play :-(

[lorcar]

 
You've complained about the responses you've gotten here.
I pretty much stuck to what you'd asked.
You might have gotten responses more to your liking.

If I read all your responses again, I dont find them over the line, nor judgemental, not pontificating, and I dont see any attitude or arrogance in your words. There is nothing I had to like or dislike, or anything I complained about, we just had an exchange of ideas.

[keypeg]

@Lorcar, the post I'll be quoting from was all in response to me.  Communication may be a major problem and maybe (?) some of that can be bridged.

You quoted me, "I expected you to be a bewildered parent struggling to help your child.  I wrote as a parent trying to help another parent.  If you were coming only to vent your feelings, then I read it wrong."  That was a communication attempt, explaining how I had understood your post, and why I had responded on the parenting side, and asking whether I'd understood it wrong - that you had wanted to share feelings.  Your response starts.

I guess that if you go on the web and write to strangers, you then have to accept what you get back, so I cannot complain. My fault. ....

I can't tell if you understood that I had perceived a need and responded to it as a fellow parent, and now suspect that need wasn't there.  You don't mention it.

Further down in your response to me, you wrote:

   I wish I had your confidence, your ability to pontificate and shoot judgments .....  I would never dare to say (imagine writing) something like "you are an helicopter parent", or "i am sorry for your kid",

I never wrote anything like that.  There were no judgments.  I suspect you were writing collectively, but there are different individuals here, and more importantly, if you're responding to me, I'm an individual and no communication can happen melded into a collective them.

So let's start with what comes closest to a response to what you quoted from me.

However I was expecting -as someone obsessed with music- to talk about myself and music with people sharing the same obsession.

So - communication.  That purpose did not come across.  Therefore like-minded people who want to share an obsession about music did not write about that obsession because that purpose did not communicate.

(Explaining what happened) It may be that what kicks in is that we have a music instinct, but we also have a parent instinct, and for me the parent instinct always overrides the music one, if a problem appears.  If in a group a fellow musician seems distraught about their child, then the parents in the group will instantly shift gears to try to help the parent.  It's instinctive.  Even elephants, which are a strong community, will do that.  When I'm in a group of parents here, and one describes a problem, we'll throw in what worked for us - nobody is pontificating or feeling the perfect parent.  It is caring and compassion. Everyone understands that this is how it's meant.  I'm writing as an individual, my own posts.

So going back to this:

However I was expecting -as someone obsessed with music- to talk about myself and music with people sharing the same obsession.

Let's talk about your obsession and love of music.   What kind of music do you like to play?  Do you play other instruments besides piano?  How about your own journey in music?  I'd love to hear more, and then might be able to respond.

[keypeg]

I do want to write about this secondary topic:

.... the modern approach where kids words are given the same consideration as adults', something unthinkable just a generation ago, and mentioning my doubt that this permissive approach might be beneficial.

There are people who think they are doing this approach, but are doing nothing more than lazy "parenting".  They just let their kids loose and "have at it" with no engagement, guidance, or involvement.  They don't educate themselves first.  You'll see a right mess with this, and you may have seen that yourself.  I did go into it in the other forum, but not to pontificate.  I think because it seems that your spouse is going that direction (?) and to explain some of what is involved.  A lot of guidance by the parent goes into this, or it runs amock.

In regard to it being unthinkable a generation ago --- I AM part of the "generation ago".  My children are likely your age.  But you pointed out that you are in some country somewhere that may not be Canada, the US, or (Western Europe?) so it may be that our old trends are new where you are.

My first influence was in the 1960's, as a young teen reading "How Children Fail" and "How Children Learn".  Later when I taught in public school, I did not like what I saw and with things going in life as they did and what I saw in the local school, opted for homeschooling for quite a few years.  My grandchild has attended school from the beginning, and at age 2 it was Montessori.

What I experienced as a child I can now see as a great deal of neglect.  I attended school, got good grades with no involvement by my parents.  I was identified as gifted in music by a teacher, who had older children bring me a collection of scores with songs, when I was seven.  My parents decided idealistically to become farmers, and for extra money there was work for an American tourist family.   When one of the Americans heard my self-taught playing, they offered my parents to sponsor me at a conservatory, room, board, tuition.  I learned about this when I was 60 years old.  My parents had told them it was "unnecessary".  They were content to have me try to figure things out on my own.  Other tourists were taken by my artwork, and a package arrived from the US with art supplies: pastels, paints, charcoal, art paper.  I remember using bits of burned wood as charcoal, and drawing on brown grocery bags.  This was done on the back of a corrugated board as a child.  It was from a National Geographic page that my parents had a subscription to.  it must have been after getting the gift with pastels.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ekum591fixi3wf3yy08b3/wood-carver.JPG?rlkey=asdwonlen3l0hiikln351a3lj&st=y47yifz2&dl=0

Passion and drive can exist without parental input, but it certainly helps to have parental support and opportunities.  The parental path is hard.  One can swing too far one way or the other.  What is good teaching, a good program?  What is the parent's role?  and so on.

When people tell me how they were intimidated and confused by music teachers, made to hate music, or got confused by too rigid rules, then I feel fortunate to have escaped all of that.  Otoh, I don't appreciate trying to learn in my 60s and 70s what I could have learned as a child, and above all, undoing all the nonsense that came into my playing due to zero guidance.  There wasn't even the Internet.

[samanthsen]

jesus how arrogant, overconfident and patronising. And in particular, out of track. I followed until a certain point to better clarify what I had in mind (not being english my first language and hoping to bring all back on track) and it seems you still prefer talking from your pedestal about my daughter and her sad life, and how I should change my position and "integrate" with someone I never met who is lecturing from a musicians forum.
Thanks for the greatest lesson i got today: what social media really are, i now have a better understanding of what people mean.
And last note (which of course will be used to say that i deflect attacking the fair criticising judge): I am not sure which country you guys write from, but from your attitude I might have a very educated guess. Call it racism if it might you feel better.
thanks to everyone who responded.

I hear what you’re saying, it felt like the conversation shifted away from what you intended, and the tone got personal. That wasn’t fair.
I’m curious: when someone replies in a way that feels patronising, how do you prefer they address your points instead?

[lostinidlewonder]

I hear what you’re saying, it felt like the conversation shifted away from what you intended, and the tone got personal. That wasn’t fair.

It seems locar is the only one taking it personal with the insults. He clearly says crazy things and expects no response to that, like not taking any interest in any of his daughters interests except music and that she will ruin her life etc etc. Then he feels like hes been attacked because we point out the less than desirable ideologies of his own words. He's not here for advice just venting, but we can still give the advice he doesn't want lol. We afterall have to read his rants about his most favourite topic, himself.

[essence]

I am hoping a lot of these conflicts arise from the (mis)use of language.

Obsess is a very strong and troubling word to a native English speaker, from whatever side of the pond.

[keypeg]

I am hoping a lot of these conflicts arise from the (mis)use of language.

Obsess is a very strong and troubling word to a native English speaker, from whatever side of the pond.

I had thought of that possibility too, including also cultural ways of communicating, but I dunno.  I am very careful not to use value-laden words, but the OP threw a whole bunch of things at me including quoting things i had never said.  There may be a communication problem but which is not language-based.