Petite Reunion

[Ruro]

Lo all, I am a rare poster, but I'm often here scowering them archives here for answers ^_^ Except it failed to produce the answer for this question!

I am still a newbie at the keyboard, but I'm stuck on a new piece I'm learning: Petite Reunion by Burgmuller. Because this scales up and down so much you can't really use the same fingers, such as 2/4 over and over. It never occured to me until I took note of the finger numbers you could, if going up the scale, start with: 1/3, then 2/4 for the middle, and end on 3/5 (assuming this is the right hand).

Dang, I'm a fool not to realise that, but my only quabble is me thinks it's slower!? Obviously, it's my limited skill in the quick pace of finger changing, BUT when you look at bar 2 alone, I don't think it would work aswell >_<

Instead of moving your hand up the scale and using the same 2/4 fingering, your stuck in the same place desperately trying to switch from: 1/3 to 2/5 to 3/5!? Then you have to move your hand up and attempt the same apocalyptic movement of fingers.

I can't get this right in any efficient manner, and any tips on how to fix this dilemna of my most likely limited finger coordination skills or something is welcome! Just going up the scale in either methods mentioned above usually leaves me bashing more then 2 keys anyway >_<

Here's a link for the first page if required:
https://everynote.com/goods.1/Bur_LaPetitReun.pdf

Oh and that's assuming the numbering on the second bar indicate to use: 3/5, 2/4, 1/3 all the way down, and not a repeating 3/5 fingering.

I know nothing, lol Thanks in advanced for the help people. And sorry if this makes no sense, I work hard at sentence structuring but my English GCSE 'D' grade haunts me.

[thierry13]

Try to keep the inscribed fingerings, as they must bu respected for correct phrasing. Try doing it up and down, the faster you can get it perfectly ( wich is slow for you, as you described). Then try improvise other rythms and allways visualise where's the next place your fingers will be placed. If you just can't do it, maybe the work is too much for you technically.

[berrt]

Oh and that's assuming the numbering on the second bar indicate to use: 3/5, 2/4, 1/3 all the way down, and not a repeating 3/5 fingering.

Thats how it must be played. As Thierry said, you must follow the indicated fingering. The repeated 4/2 part in bar 10 ist to be played staccato, that helps a little bit.
The burgmuller etudes increase difficulty with their order, this one is no 4, perhaps you better start with no 1, "la candeur"?

Try this site: https://www.gate.net/~nnomoto/burgmuller/burgmull.htm

bye
Berrt

[Ruro]

Ah thankyou for the replies ^_^ I think I'll just stick at it, conquer the piece hopefuly.
This is the second piece I have chosen, because I like it and I'm not sure where else to start due to my low skill (my first piece was Fur Elise, I'm just working with what came with my keyboard atm).

Thanks for the link btw, I will take a looky at the older ones, I bet they are similar, so perhaps I'll take them up for pieces to learn aswell ^_^ Thanks again!

[rlefebvr]

I play this piece.

The fingering is very important, not only to play it properly, but to get it to sound right. Do not despair.

Make sure you use your arms and to not just move your fingers.

Also took me a long time to get this right, but it is a great great exercise piece.



For thirds have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2477.msg21404.html#msg21404

 

[bernhard]

I am about to disagree with everyone.

You may or may not use the fingering suggested. There is nothing magical about any specific fingering. It is just superstition. You can make good sounds and good phrasing with any fingering whatsoever. However, the most comfortable fingering will always allow you more control over tone and phrasing.

It is no good to use a suggested fingering if it feels “apocalyptic”.

I just went to the piano and played bar 2 with the following fingerings:

1.   53 – 42 – 13 (as suggested)
2.   42 – 13 – 42 – 13
3.   42 – 42 – 42 – 42
4.   13 – 13 – 13 – 13
5.   played the thirds with both hands: right hand the top note, left hand the bottom note. This was by far the one that sounded the best.

Now you must understand the problem here.

What is your aim in learning this piece of music?

1.   Is it because you love to play it and would like to make it part of your repertory? If so, you owe to the music to use the technique that will bring the music to its best (for your playing). If it was me, I would not bat an eyelid in sharing the thirds between both hands. “But this is cheating!” one may say. But cheating who exactly? And who created the rule that I have to play this passage with fingering 53-42-13? A performer allegiance must always be to the music, not to the fingering. Surely it is far more important to provide the best sound, whatever fingering/movement you use.

2.   Is it because you want to master the co-ordination that allow you to play thirds with 53-42-13, and chose this piece as a good way to go about it? If so, this is a completely different aim. And if that is the case, then of course you should stick to the fingering. It is a useful fingering in the sense that many pieces will require it – pieces in which you will not have any other alternative.

This is one of the main reasons I do not bother with exercises. If they are worthwhile as pieces of music I will likely change the fingerings, movements, etc. to make it comfortable (many exercises are created with the specific aim to make it uncomfortable)and musically effective, and so defeat the purpose of the exercise. And if the technique is worth learning, soon enough one will come across a superior piece of music that requires the technique.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[rlefebvr]

I am about to disagree with everyone.


2.   Is it because you want to master the co-ordination that allow you to play thirds with 53-42-13, and chose this piece as a good way to go about it? If so, this is a completely different aim. And if that is the case, then of course you should stick to the fingering. It is a useful fingering in the sense that many pieces will require it – pieces in which you will not have any other alternative.


Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Well, I really like the piece, actually I like alot of the Burgmuller stuff, but the main reason to play it is that it's a great short piece that allow you to play thirds. So for me playing them as written is the whole point. Thirds are murder by the way. May as well have fun playing them.

[berrt]

I am about to disagree with everyone.

i expected that....

You may or may not use the fingering suggested. There is nothing magical about any specific fingering. It is just superstition. You can make good sounds and good phrasing with any fingering whatsoever. However, the most comfortable fingering will always allow you more control over tone and phrasing.

It is no good to use a suggested fingering if it feels “apocalyptic”.

Surely - in this case i find the indicated fingering "natural", not artificially uncomfortable.

.

I just went to the piano and played bar 2 with the following fingerings:

5.   played the thirds with both hands: right hand the top note, left hand the bottom note. This was by far the one that sounded the best

while holding the breve g? hmmm...

Anyway, i like this one as music as well as an exercise. And experimenting with other fingerings may broaden the horizon, so the indicated fingering may be more of a suggestion.

bye
Berrt

[Ruro]

Oh my, my apologies, I don't visit that often and I didn't expect more grandose information ^_^ Thankyou again!

I think the suggested fingerings is more preferable, although I still have to master it. If I use 2/4 all the way down instead RSI kicks in much faster... I find I have to tense perhaps a bit too much to keep up with the pace?

Bernhard, the reason (and perhaps kinda shameful, I dunno) I want to work on this piece is because I'm still quite new to the realm of Piano music, and it's one of the only interesting pieces on my Keyboard to learn from. I havn't heard that many composers either, and finding music I love... is difficult. I generaly like all piano pieces, but I'm not finding the deeply moving music like I find with X Japan, but it could be the fact I love the band and therefore I fall in love with the music aswell...

I continue to listen to Classic FM, and check out new artists, I'm gonna buy the Opus Clavicembalasticum I believe it's called by Sorabji, just the length of the piece would please me, never mind it's content ^_^ I'm weird like that!

Although I do find in alot of things for me, I set myself goals to meet, tough challenge preferably and stick at it until I get there. Hopefuly this isn't a bad stance to take with learning the Piano, but... I shall manage!

Well, before I spill my rambling any further, I shall leave it there ^_^ I thank thee for thy help once again!

EDIT: Okay, according to this thread that rlefebvr posted, it totaly contradicts the suggested fingers being used in good practise on this piece... but I shall keep reading incase I'm mistaken...

[bernhard]

while holding the breve g? hmmm...

That is what the damper pedal is ther for 

Best wishes,
Bernhard.