Tough-cookie student, any suggestions?

[allthumbs]

Greetings Nicko124 and tds

Why don' the two of you agree to diagree. If not, take to e-mailing each other to continue your debate.

Just a suggestion.

Cheers

[tds]

Greetings Nicko124 and tds

Why don' the two of you agree to diagree. If not, take to e-mailing each other to continue your debate.

Just a suggestion.

Cheers

greetings, allthumbs!

you just made an excellent suggestion. i am thru explaining myself and am taking your advice. best, tds

[nicko124]

Greetings Nicko124 and tds

Why don' the two of you agree to diagree. If not, take to e-mailing each other to continue your debate.

Just a suggestion.

Cheers

Good Idea, this discussion is going nowhere anyway. I don't have time to repeat points that i have already made so let's end the discussion.

[whynot]

Um, m1469?  You probably don't want to come back to this thread now-- WHO COULD BLAME YOU-- but if you can bear it, I think lots of people would love to hear how your girl is doing.  If not, best wishes in your work with her.

[m1469]

Actually I had a lesson with her just today.  It was rather intersting really.  She came to her lesson prepared and played through her pieces.  She would mess up occasionally and it seemed to matter to her to do it right and so she would apologize and want to do it again (which in this case I tell her that she is doing great but I allow her to start again if she wishes because she shows an honest desire to put in effort).

A big thing is that I try to pass off the Finale notepad download to as many students as I can.  She has never been even an inch open to it and just says "I can't do that, I am not good at that" with regard to composing.  So I had never sent her the link.  But today I decided to just have us sit at the computer together and work on a composition.  Of course I got the initial "I am can't do this..." routine as though she had spent hours upon hours trying and had come to a definite decision.  So I said "that's why we are here, to learn and I will help you".  So we started and it was magical actually. 

We only composed 4 mm, one measure at a time.  I did not make any rules or give it any names like "a 4 bar phrase" because I just wanted her to feel at ease and not as though she were needing to live up to something.  But she got really into it.  I would help with general suggestions of some principle ideas that she may want to try, only to give her something to work with and help in the overall sound of it when she would play it back. 

She turned into a different person.  She was thinking about how to add up enough of each note value to equal 4 beats, she was exploring with 1/32 notes and large intervals and several other things and she was smiling and laughing at times.  She became perhaps fully involved and she was visibly enjoying herself even.   When we finished I think she was surprised she had composed this music and she enjoyed hearing it play back.  She agreed to me sending her the link to download the software on her own computer and I told her I would email her the composition she had made while she was here.

This was quite a big step as I feel I saw true enjoyment in something music related for her.  I look forward to seeing how it develops.

I will say that what frustrated me today was that when her dad came to pick her up, I explained about the software I wanted to send and that we had composed a composition today.  He was sarcastic and said "oh yes, I can just see how enthusiastic she is" when in reality she truly enjoyed herself.  I am beginning to think that my student hides from her parents and does not want them to see her feelings.  This is something quite serious to me actually and I am hoping that she can find in my studio and within music a place to let go a little.

That's it for now.  Thanks for asking.

m1469

[lostinidlewonder]

I think its important to ask yoruself how did you find out that they are being forced into learning piano? If the student themselves say it to you, then you must question if it is right to continue to teach them. It highlights their disatisfaction with what they are doing. To a child who has a complainer personality this might not be such a devastating remark to you, rather their personally trying to control the state of the lesson. In that case you have to have good distractive techinques to pull them out of that thought process. But a child who is always polite to you saying it, we have to react differntely. We must use our senses and judge appropriately.

Nevertheless if you hear it more than once from either personality it is a serious problem. Simply, if the thought about wanting to be elsewhere is there, you can't teach them anything and your teaching potential and the students learning ability goes right down the drain since you keep trying to keep the interest and motivation which just isn't natural enough on the students behalf.

Some kids have to be forced to do things and then they will appreciate it, I haven't really heard of anyone regretting learning the piano, but i have heard a lot regretting that they didnt, so sometimes adults know better than what a child thinks they need.

A good teacher can tell if a student has no ability and also no interest in their music, in that case the teacher shouldn't think about teaching that student. There is just two negative factors up against you, first you have to generate the interest and enjoyment for the music and secondly you have to patch up all their physical ailments at the keyboard. It is too much to do and the student will fizzle our more than yourself.

But a student who has ability but no interest is also a tough case but workable. You have to develop the interest, that is the teachers responsibility then. If you can't nudge their interest levels at all through teaching them music they enjoy, offering them to see live peformances, lend them Cd's videos etc then there really is nothing else you can do! So long you see progress in them every week you have the right standings to continue to teach them. I have encouraged a lot of students who where in this category about the money one can make through peformance, I know it is very shallow but their eyes light up when they realise there are piano competition around the place where you can play just one piece and win a thousand bucks every year.

A student that has interest but no ability is a fantastic student, very enjoyable because you will undergo a lot of small challenges and lots of smaller wins with them. A student without ability can turn into something very special with the right guidance, and to me personally are the most fun to teach. A student of course that has interest and ability is a dream to teach, but a lot of the time the work is set out for you because of the unique demands each one requires to stretch into much more advanced players.

When student progress stagnate for the wrong reasons then you should cancel the lesson. A teacher should always learn from their student, you will learn nothing from a student who continually looks at their watch wanting to be elsewhere. Fair enough you can be a charity case and try to make them into what someone else hopes for them, but in the end the effort must come from both sides or it is just as useless as whipping a stubborn donkey.

[whynot]

Great job, m1469!  congratulations.  Happy to hear the latest progress.

[Torp]

I will say that what frustrated me today was that when her dad came to pick her up, I explained about the software I wanted to send and that we had composed a composition today.  He was sarcastic and said "oh yes, I can just see how enthusiastic she is" when in reality she truly enjoyed herself.

I rest my case about parent's having the ability to be such dorks.

I am beginning to think that my student hides from her parents and does not want them to see her feelings.

From the few tidbits we have about what happens when she shares herself with others and the reaction from her father, I'd say your analysis is correct.  When she does the best she can and her only response from the people who matter the most is one of disdain and ridicule, what's the motivation to improve?  Better just to give up and claim incompetence, i.e. "I can't."  A state known as 'Assumed Inadequacy.'

This is something quite serious to me actually and I am hoping that she can find in my studio and within music a place to let go a little.

Sounds like she's starting to find both.

m1469, you should feel very proud of your accomplishments with this girl.  You may not know it now, and she may not either, but what you're doing may have one of the most profound influences on her future.  Keep the faith...you're doing great!

Jef

PS - I second whynot, happy to hear the latest progress.  I was worried this thread would not survive the devistating sidetrack.  In retrospect I probably should have known you wouldn't have given up that easily though. 

[nicko124]

Yes well done m1469 for being patient with this girl and not giving up on her (as some reccomended - see 1st Page).


Now Whynot and Torp i have to respond to your criticism regarding parts of this thread:-

Torp Said:-
"I was worried this thread would not survive the devistating sidetrack.  In retrospect I probably should have known you wouldn't have given up that easily though"

'Give Up' you say! If you check the first page i did a lot of typing to offer my advice and experiences for m1469's situation. The actual result of the student warming to piano was a possibility that i explained and so i beleive my advice was sound.

My advice may have been a bit of a hostile disaggrement with the ones who told m1469 to 'give up' on the student. However i don't think you have the right to say my advice and shared experience was a 'devistating sidetrack' as you did.



Whynot said:-
"You probably don't want to come back to this thread now-- WHO COULD BLAME YOU"

I know that the discussion got a bit heated but both sides of the advice can also be used to help so stop being so negative. I explained that if you use some patience and try to inspire the student to play for herself rather than her parents than there is the possibility of improvement in attitude etc. Others reccomend 'showing the door'.

We can now see that the student is starting to enjoy practicing and so my advice was correct.

Some of you who perhaps didn't feel it appropriate to step in and contribute either can't (never been in the same situation as student) or won't (because they don't to change the mood of the thread).

[Torp]

'Give Up' you say! If you check the first page i did a lot of typing to offer my advice and experiences for m1469's situation. The actual result of the student warming to piano was a possibility that i explained and so i beleive my advice was sound.

Uh.....First of all, I never singled you out at all.  Seems to me your taking something personally that was never meant that way.

My comment actually states that I should have known better that m1469 wouldn't have given up.  I was referring to m1469 giving up on the thread, not on the student.  From reading through many of m1469's posts I have come to the conclusion that m1469 is a very deep thinker and someone who seeks deeply for knowledge and understanding.  She consistently asks very thought-provoking questions, rarely, if ever, engages in petty banter over opposing ideas, and is always very thoughtful of other people's thoughts and ideas.  I also think that most participants in this forum see the same things and have always respected her posts as a place to truly discuss things in an open way.  I don't think I have ever witnessed a thread that she started denigrate into such an impasse as this one.

Personally, I was saddened that it had happened in this thread.  I was gladdened when whynot revived the thread and more gladdened when m1469 responded with her most postive update of progress with the student.

Jef

[nicko124]

My advice refers to the teacher 'not giving up' on the student which is fair advice, based on my own experiences as a student forced to have lessons. I haven't heard you recall on your similar experiences and thus i assume you don't have any. My advice turned out to be logical in the end though as this student seems to be getting better as i did.

I did my best to offer advice in this thread and i find it slightly insulting that you (and maybe others) are taking it the wrong way.  You are still talking about m1469 not giving up on the thread though and this shows that you see my advice as deconstructive in some way.

I thought that this forums purpose was maybe to provoke discussion of ideas, i think i followed this (see page 1). I may have had a disagreement with tds et al but i am allowed to express that and give my opinion. I see no reason why m1469 (and others) would be in the position to give up on this thread. Please use page 1 to tell me which advice i made that offended the purpose of this thread. If i remember correctly this thread was asking for advice and i think i provided some (based on my own experiences).

[Torp]

Honestly you three would make crap agressive teachers which is obvious from your lack of patience:.....

All three of you just look like arrogant musicians....

I don't see anything in this that is particularly beneficial or somehow helps m1469 with her student.

It is an absolute joke to even try and have a discussion with you...

I am hopefully done with this thread as it is just a slave to a padantic debater like yourself who never budges even when they are wrong.

Likewise for these comments; and these happened after you said you'd be nice.  Maybe you can help me understand how the sentences I quoted from your posts qualify as constructive advice?

Since you are fond of referring people to previous posts, I will refer you to any of mine in this thread.  I would be interested to see where it is I have said anywhere that your "advice" is in error.  I believe you will find that I haven't.  Further, I believe you will find that I have never referred to you at all.  More importantly, I have not told anyone that they are crap or that they are a pedantic debater.

There has been some great advice on this thread.  There has also been some advice that I seriously disagree with.  Disagreeing with someone's advice is not reason enough to call them names and to otherwise degrade them.  Whatever argument you may want to make it is never strengthened by attempting to denigrate the other person's character.  Though from the recent elections in the USA I might be tempted to rethink that last statement.

Jef

[Torp]

m1469,

I haven't heard from you for a while.  How is the book reading going?  I can see from your updates that some of our discussion points are beginning to bear fruit.  Keep up the good work.

Jef

[Torp]

However i don't think you have the right to say my advice and shared experience was a 'devistating sidetrack' as you did.

I never said your advice and experience were a sidetrack.



Sorry to keep posting against this m1469, it's Wednesday and I'm having a bad day.  Must be that I'm hopelessly caught in the death struggles of my thirties....they end as of midnight tonight.

[nicko124]

I never said your advice and experience where a sidetrack.



Sorry to keep posting against this m1469, it's Wednesday and I'm having a bad day.  Must be that I'm hopelessly caught in the death struggles of my thirties....they end as of midnight tonight.

You wouldn't need to keep on posting about this if you just accepted every contribution made to this thread.

[Torp]

You wouldn't need to keep on posting about this if you just accepted every contribution made to this thread.

Accepting or not accepting any post in this forum is not within my powers.  Only Nils has that power.

[nicko124]

Accepting or not accepting any post in this forum is not within my powers.  Only Nils has that power.

Somebody likes being padantic. I mean don't complain about a thread because others have expressed intentionally helpful advice and opinions. Let's see how difficult it is for you to do that.

[Torp]

Somebody likes being padantic. I mean don't complain about a thread because others have expressed intentionally helpful advice and opinions. Let's see how difficult it is for you to do that.

Please show me where I have complained about helpful advice and opinions in this thread.

Jef

[whynot]

Torp, I really wanted to keep talking about the student here, but I have to ask, are you turning 40 tonight???  YAY!  Sorry for the sidestep, that's the only one I'll do, but 40 is special.  

[Torp]

Torp, I really wanted to keep talking about the student here, but I have to ask, are you turning 40 tonight???  YAY!  Sorry for the sidestep, that's the only one I'll do, but 40 is special.  

Well, technically it would be 12:01 am of the 5th (tomorrow).  So I'm in the swan song hours of my 39th year.  The thirties have been great, sorry to see them go, but life has been getting better each year so it is not without some enthusiasm that I greet the forties.  I'll desist from elaborating here though.

btw - did you ever pick up a copy of the book I mentioned in this thread?

Jef

[whynot]

Eek!  I swore I'd stay on topic, but I haven't figured out how to do separate e-mails yet (I'm not the smartest person on the forum, in case that wasn't already obvious).  Sorry, m1469!  You know I really care about you and your student!!  Torp-- haven't gotten the book but I will.  Starting a family this year and it sounds perfect.  Happy, happy, happy birthday!!!  Okay, back to you, m1469.  And m1469, since I'm already off track again-- and sorry again!-- do you know who I am??

[m1469]

m1469,

I haven't heard from you for a while.  How is the book reading going?  I can see from your updates that some of our discussion points are beginning to bear fruit.  Keep up the good work.

Jef

I may as well respond here.  Yes, I have been lurking in a bit of cave, though I have not forgotten about you.  I currently have a lot on my plate to sort out so I have not been as good at keeping up on my reading.  Sometimes I have to read a little and then digest a lot, depending on the potency of the reading on my thought.

I thank you for your support and encouragement and will resume my reading soon and I look forward to future discussions.  Also, thank you for your very kind words above, they are quite meaningful to me.

And m1469, since I'm already off track again-- and sorry again!-- do you know who I am??

Why yes, I suppose I do.  It did not cross my mind until you asked actually, and then I went back and read your posts, making it apparent to me.  What a pleasant surprise  !


m1469

[Torp]

No worries m1469, just wanted to check in.

Jef

[i_m_robot]

Play pieces that wow her!!!


 

make her want to taste the piano

make her so jealous that she sits at the piano before you have a chance to

if she's impressed by your ability it will be hard for her to resist, regardless of how stubborns she is

SOMETHING YOU MAY FIND FUNNY:

This might be the first thing her mother has forced her to do and followed through with

she probably used to holding out with " I dont care" until her mother finally gives in

so she gives you the same treatment

It would be damaging to this girl if you LET HER GO after so much time

because she'd be winning (or losing) an enormous battle

[gouldfischer]

Hi all.

I've just read this whole thread, which I found extremely interesting. I'd just like to make a comment on something tds mentioned a long ago (about being no good that us adults forced our children to do this or that):

I agree with that partially. If the kid wants to actually DO some activity s/he is keen on, and not something the parents suggested, then I think that the parents should of course let them go for what they desire, if (VERY BIG IF HERE)... the chosen activity is not a "NON-activity", such as wasting her/is entire infanthood in front of the television or surfing the internet or one of those suchlike modern preferred pastimes. Be it a sport, a language course, an artistic development of whatever nature (poetry, theater, literature, painting, dancing, piano, tuba, etc.), and so many other activities (let's use common sense here), then s/he must be free to choose, yes. But let us not for a moment forget that the parents are there, among other things, to educate. And education means, at many times, denial. Denial of inertness, in this case. Denial of the easy paths leading to nowhere. There are so many adults which simply "do not care" about ANYTHING AT ALL (exception be made to money, beer and perhaps sex). If only (in most cases) they had had less do-whatever-you-want parents...

I'll give a personnal example, to support the above reasoning: I was a rather shy, home-cocooned kid. I guess my shyness hindered me to WANT to go out do things. My parents pushed me here and there, but perhaps not to the extent I needed. I wish my parents had forced me to learn piano, for example. (I'm 28 now, btw, and only started learning as a grown-up.) I am, on the other hand, absolutely grateful that they forced me to do other things I did not want or "care about", say, swimming and learning English (I'm Brazilian).

If m1469's girl does not want to learn piano, that's ok, IMO, and I think her parents would do better by allowing her to do whatever she wants IF she wants to do something. However, if she only "does not care" about anything and wants to live a couch potato life, then it's time for the denial feature of education to play its role: shake that body, young lady, life is good enough for you NOT to live. And the girl will with 99% probability thank them a lot for the guidance. But of course there are many ways to push her a bit and still keeping a high chance of her starting to like it. Being ironic about her successes, as is seemingly her father, is one of the worst I can imagine.

Very good job, m1469. Congratulations! I wish you success. How is the girl, btw? I think most of us are looking forward to getting an update after two months... :-)

Best wishes,
     Vinicius.

[omnisis]

As it has been mentioned before, I don't think your student is going to be a concert
pianist or the belle of the student recitals.  With that in mind what can you possibly do
as her humble piano teacher?  Your job is to help her find a musical interest and nuture
that interest.  Don't just play pieces and ask , "What do you think of that?"  Ask her
what the last CD she bought was?  What kind of music does she listen to at home.  Unless she is being truly belligerent, she prolly listens to some form of music, after all she is a teenager.  Have her list some bands or singers she really likes.  Then go to the music store and find something that she KNOWS already.  Maybe it's billy joel or sara mclaughlin (sp?) or coldplay.  Yeah, it's not going to be virtuoso repetoire or anything, but you have to find a way to speak to her specific musical interest. 

Analyze a popular or jazz piece that she likes, talk about harmony chord progressions or rhythmic elements.  Explain how the piece evokes a certain mood.  Try finding music to a movie soundtrack that she likes.  Learn the piece yourself and then perform it for her. 

I think everyone should have the oppurtunity to play and enjoy the classics but just forcing music that doesn't mean anything to the student will not help the situation.  My girlfriend had 10 years of lessons.....10 years and she hates piano now.  I think that is a tragedy.  I only wish my parents had the money to afford piano lessons for me as a child.  Which brings me to another point: 

I would also like to say that although I understand your need as a caring person to want to help this girl, I personally find her behavior appalling.  There are so many more students who want to take lessons but can't because of financial reasons.  It is a shame that parents often allow children to behave so disrespectfully to them in the face of obvious privileges that not every child is given the oppurtunity to experience.  I know it's tough being a teenager but this girl really doesn't know how lucky she is to have the oppurtunity to learn how to play piano.  I have seen parents who view piano study as a simply a line to put on their kid's college applications and I hope her parents aren't looking at it from this perspective.   I know turning her away seems like a tough choice for you but if she continues to disrespect you, you have to seriously consider this option.    You are a professional and you don't have to teach those that don't want to learn.  Please, update your progress here as I am curious as to how you will eventually resolve this issue.  Good Luck.


~omnisis

[omnisis]

sorry about that last paragraph mayla.  I must have skipped over your update.  I think you are on the right track.  Maybe you should tell this girl that it isn't your intention to "make her" do anything.  Tell her you are there to help her grow musically and you have expectations but those expectations are based on our assement of her progress and ability.  I don't know if getting to "honest" with her will lead you down that "friend" path that others have warned about but you have to seperate yourself from her parents so that she doesn't see you as merely the facilitator of her parents strong will.  It seems like you have made some progress recently and maybe a little time and more patience will get you thru this.  It sounds like the tension at home is putting a strain on life.  Maybe it will pass with time?


~omnisis

[m1469]

I have to say that I am truly impressed with the continued interest in this thread.  Sometimes I feel like the student here is me...LOL (  ) .  Here is a deep confession :  I am *contemplating* how much time and energy to put into this student....


*******

I have been sitting here thinking about what to say next for 20 minutes or so... music in my head... music in my heart... what a wonderful thing really... strains just flowing and flowing... does every musician experience this ?  Perhaps if she could just taste that... music would take care of her... he he... yes, I need to work harder at meeting her where she is.  Where is all this music coming from ?  How can one help another find that place ?  How can a person not have some sort of enjoyment toward music ?  I need to learn more about her.... I need to be a better teacher for her.... she needs help....  she is on vacation right now, scheduled to return in about two weeks.  I will use this time to build a better plan for her.

Thanks for your responses gouldfischer and omnisis, they are quite helpful to me.


m1469

[thalberg]

I had a really tough student once.  Like your student, her parents made her take lessons.  Because she had no choice, she wanted to  hate the lessons.  I decided that I didn't want to take away from her the one thing she had left--her right to her feelings.  So I simply allowed her to hate her piano lessons if she wanted to (I still required her to work). Once she saw she had the freedom to  feel how she wanted, she put down her sword.

I believe that when I child sees that he or she can hate a situation, and you will still do right by them, and you will not try to take away their feelings, they really feel loved and they learn to trust you.

[Torp]

I believe that when I child sees that he or she can hate a situation, and you will still do right by them, and you will not try to take away their feelings, they really feel loved and they learn to trust you.

This is a very important insight.  I wonder how many people truly understand it.

[m1469]

I had a really tough student once.  Like your student, her parents made her take lessons.  Because she had no choice, she wanted to  hate the lessons.  I decided that I didn't want to take away from her the one thing she had left--her right to her feelings.  So I simply allowed her to hate her piano lessons if she wanted to (I still required her to work). Once she saw she had the freedom to  feel how she wanted, she put down her sword.

I believe that when I child sees that he or she can hate a situation, and you will still do right by them, and you will not try to take away their feelings, they really feel loved and they learn to trust you.

Thanks for sharing this thalberg.  I will agree with Torp about your last sentence, it is very striking.  I will be thinking on how to incorporate this in my own attitude toward her and it will most likely influence how I teach her as well.

m1469

[m1469]

Okay, it has taken me sometime now to work up the nerve to confess that this student went away and never came back  .  Maybe it's for the better, but for some reason, I am feeling a bit as though I failed.  This is not my first student who has quit (of course), I just feel extra sad or something because everybody spent as much time as you did trying to help her by helping me.   Sorry guys  .


I feel though, that I learned an enormous amount from this thread and the experience of teaching this young lady.   Thanks for your time and effort.  

uhmmm.. bye bye

m1469

[Torp]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.  As ubiquitous as that statement is I believe it applies to your situation.  People make choices in their lives.  One of the most difficult things we can do is to let them do that and respect their right to choose, especially when it's a choice we wouldn't make for them or for ourselves.

It's not a failure on your part; the picture was far more complicated than that.

Jef

[m1469]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.  As ubiquitous as that statement is I believe it applies to your situation.  People make choices in their lives.  One of the most difficult things we can do is to let them do that and respect their right to choose, especially when it's a choice we wouldn't make for them or for ourselves.

It's not a failure on your part; the picture was far more complicated than that.

Jef

yeah, okay, you're right and good point.  Thanks, and it is good to have you back to the forum 

m1469

[Torp]

Thanks, and it is good to have you back to the forum 

m1469

You're welcome, it's good to be off the road for a while.

[timothy42b]

The horse analogy is way too limited.  If you lead a horse to water, and he doesn't drink, he now knows where the water is, and has had a walk with someone he learned to trust. 

You didn't create another Horowitz.

On the other hand, you spent an hour a week giving this student honest caring attention.  That may be the only hour a week in her life that was like that.  Who knows what good may eventually come from sowing those seeds?

We'll never know the extent of the impact you had.  But for sure you did no harm, and may have done enormous good.  I don't see this as failure at all.  You touched a life for the better - what more can a teacher ask? 

[Torp]

If you lead a horse to water, and he doesn't drink, he now knows where the water is, and has had a walk with someone he learned to trust.

I believe this is exactly what is implied, for me, by the horse analogy.  I see no contradiction in my use of it, or that it is limited in any way.  You can LEAD people, but only if they choose to follow.  You can TEACH, but sometimes the student isn't ready for the lesson.  Ultimately, the message is under the control of the receiver.

[timothy42b]

I believe this is exactly what is implied, for me, by the horse analogy.  I see no contradiction in my use of it, or that it is limited in any way.  You can LEAD people, but only if they choose to follow.  You can TEACH, but sometimes the student isn't ready for the lesson.  Ultimately, the message is under the control of the receiver.

Torp, I didn't intend any criticism.  I was trying to expand the analogy, not disagree with it. 

However, I will take issue with your last sentence.  Under control of the receiver?  Yes, for a well adjusted adult.  But for a troubled adolescent?  Their choices are NOT always under their control, much as we'd like to think so.  That is why I think m1469 did such an outstanding job, despite how difficult the student may have made it.  And that's why it is so important not to become angry with a difficult student. 

[Torp]

Torp, I didn't intend any criticism.  I was trying to expand the analogy, not disagree with it. 

None taken.

However, I will take issue with your last sentence.  Under control of the receiver?  Yes, for a well adjusted adult.  But for a troubled adolescent?  Their choices are NOT always under their control, much as we'd like to think so.  That is why I think m1469 did such an outstanding job, despite how difficult the student may have made it.  And that's why it is so important not to become angry with a difficult student. 

Yes, I believe that the message is under the control of the receiver, even for a troubled adolescent.  Everyone of us ultimately views the world through our own set of perceptions.  I will agree that how we came about those perceptions is often out of our control as children and, perversely, extremely difficult to recognize and change as adults.

I also agree that m1469 did all she could do in this circumstance.  She read books, she discussed the issue with peers to gain additional insight, she adapted her behavior and message to the student, all with an open heart and love and care.  Still, the message went unheard.  Perhaps not completely, and perhaps only to the parents who, I suspect, are really pulling all the strings in one form or another.