time and muscle tension

[qwerty quaver]

spam

[xvimbi]

No matter how much time you have, now is the time to start working on your tension problem. It's good that you have diagnosed the problem spots to the shoulders. The next step would be to figure out what it is you are doing with your shoulders that causes them to tense up. Are you playing with raised shoulders? Are you forcing them down, because you are trying to avoid playing with raised shoulders? Either way would lead to tension. Do the problem pieces require you to use your shoulders a lot? Although rare, there are a few pianistic techniques that require a lot of work with the shoulders, potentially leading to tension, because of lack of certain technical skills.

But mostly, shoulder problems are psychological. Tension in the shoulders mostly comes from a state of excitement and nervousness, particularly when the piece is not mastered yet. This usually manifests itself in raised shoulders. Do you (or your teacher) also observe irregularities in your breathing when you play those two problem pieces, compared to the other ones? That would be another indication that the problem is really "in your head", not in your muscles.

Of course, your shoulder issues could also come from wrong posture, but the fact that you are able to play some pieces without any shoulder tension indicates that you have an OK posture (but I might be wrong.)

Whenever you feel tension, focus on it and tell your body to release it. You will have problems at this point playing the notes correctly, because your attention is diverted to some extent, but over time, it will resolve. I know you don't have a lot of time, so you could always think about getting past the exams and then work on these issues in piece and quiet.

Good luck!

[qwerty quaver]

Thank u so much!!

whenever i hit the "fast" passages or those with plenty o' notes, my shoulders do tend to raise. as it being a psychological problem, i finally understand why my teacher makes me do mental exercices when i have a fixation or sthg on a specific passage!!!

by the way, the two pieces with which i have tension problems are: Intermezzo (from the "carnaval de vienne" by Schumann) and the 1st movement of Mozart's Sonata Kv 311 in D Major.

thanks once again

[bernhard]

This is not to disagree with xvimbi – everything he says is most correct – but rather to add to it, and perhaps to give you a new perspective.

“Relaxation” is a very loose word ( no pun intended), and often leads to misunderstandings. Consider for instance that if you truly relax you will end up lying on the floor.

Rather than get involved in a lengthy semantic discussion on what exactly is meant by tension/relaxation, I will ask you to do the following experiment:

Sit on your piano, and with the left hand (just for illustration – you can do that with the right hand), play a low C with the 5th finger, and then a high C 3 octaves above with the thumb. You will have to move your forearm from one C to the other. It is easy to do slowly. The muscles that move your forearm to the C to the right are on the inside of the arm, the muscles that move your arm to the left are on the outside of the arm. These muscles are “antagonists”. In order to move the arm to the right, the muscles on the inside of the arm must contract (tense) while the muscles on the outside of the arm must relax. When moving your arm to the left the opposite occurs: the muscles on the inside of the arm must relax as the muscles on the outside contract.

One important fact is that you can only “tense” (or contract) muscle at will. You cannot “relax”, or lengthen muscle. Relaxation is completely passive. And the lengthening of muscle takes place as the antagonist set contracts. This is very important.

Now as long as your sideways movement of the arm form one C to the next is done slowly, the antagonist muscles have the necessary time to relax as the other muscles contract. Just do this movement slowly and actually feel the sensation of the muscles shortening and lengthening as you contract actively one set of muscles, and let the antagonist set relax passively.

Now start increasing the speed of this movement and you will experience a seizure of the muscles. Because of the increasing speed, there is no time for the antagonist muscles to relax as the agonists contract. Therefore you start fighting against your own muscles. This is called co-contraction (and if you read xvimbi;s posts you will se that he often talks about it), and is the great villain behind injuries and effort-ladden playing.

It is very important to understand that no amount of practice will avoid co-contraction at speed. Just like the non-existent independence of the 4th finger that no exercise will ever solve, the more you practise this sort of movement at speed (a movement where agonist muscles go one way, and then the antagonists go the opposite way) you are always going to end up with co-contraction and eventually injured. It is no good telling one to relax in such conditions.

One needs a completely different kind of movement: one that involves no co-contraction at all. Are you ready for this? You better sit down, because what I am about to tell you is gonna make you weak at the knees.

Go back to that movement form one C to the next three octaves away. Up to now you have been using the agonist muscles to bring your hand to the right and the antagonist muscles to bring your hand to the left. Because there is no time for the agonists/antagonists to relax after contracting, soon you are experience fatigue and the muscles are getting cramped, since they are fighting against one another.

But what if you did not use the antagonist muscles at all? What if you used only the agonist muscles? How do you do that? Well, instead of moving your arm in a linear fashion form right to left, move it in a circle always in the same direction. You can make a clockwise circle, or an anticlockwise one. In either case you are not using pairs of opposing muscles anymore. Co-contraction never occurs since there is no reason to relax or contract the opposing muscles. Fatigue disappears. Injury risk is nil. Just try it: move your arm fast form side to side, and then move it always in the same direction by following a circular path. You will see that you can go in a circle pretty much forever, while going from side to side after a few seconds you cannot do it anymore.

Now, flatten the circle so that you are making an ellipsis. Make this ellipsis so narrow that to an outside observer it will look like you are moving your arm in two different directions (side to side) but actually you are moving it in the same direction and therefore never engaging the antagonist (or agonist depending on the direction) muscles.

The same principle applies to back and forth movements. Do not go back and forth: do a circular movement so that even though the hand may appear to move back and forth it is always moving in the same direction (either forward or backward).

This is of course one of the most basic principles in the martial arts: circular movements. But because most of the times such movements are very narrow ellipsis, we look at them and we think they are back and forth movements rather than single direction movements.

So of course relaxation is important, but circular movements are the only way you are going to achieve it.

Finally, if you have pain in your shoulder, it is very unlikely that the reason is in the shoulder. Sometimes a misaligned knee (that you do not feel) transmit all the way to the neck where you will feel the pain.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[xvimbi]

But what if you did not use the antagonist muscles at all? What if you used only the agonist muscles? How do you do that? Well, instead of moving your arm in a linear fashion form right to left, move it in a circle always in the same direction. You can make a clockwise circle, or an anticlockwise one. In either case you are not using pairs of opposing muscles anymore. Co-contraction never occurs since there is no reason to relax or contract the opposing muscles. Fatigue disappears. Injury risk is nil. Just try it: move your arm fast form side to side, and then move it always in the same direction by following a circular path. You will see that you can go in a circle pretty much forever, while going from side to side after a few seconds you cannot do it anymore.

Yes, indeed. This is also the trick behind beating egg whites: a smooth, circular motion with lots of wrist flexibility. I never thought of it this way before. Makes perfect sense now. It is always a Eureka moment for me when pianistic activities turn out to be practically identical with every-day activities, such as beating egg whites for a souffle, or - speaking of martial arts - beating someone up in a dark back alley, with nice, smooth, circular motions.

Thanks for the enlightening post. 

[lostinidlewonder]

We should always aim to maintain a natural hand form at the piano. Chopin said RH: E GbAbBb B  and LH: F GbAbBb C  with the middle fingers on the black notes. If we can play everything we come across with this flattened hand form, then everything we play should be easy and without any tension at all. As soon as we break from this hand form we start to create tension.

So using Bernards example

Sit on your piano, and with the left hand (just for illustration – you can do that with the right hand), play a low C with the 5th finger, and then a high C 3 octaves above with the thumb. You will have to move your forearm from one C to the other. It is easy to do slowly. The muscles that move your forearm to the C to the right are on the inside of the arm, the muscles that move your arm to the left are on the outside of the arm. These muscles are “antagonists”. In order to move the arm to the right, the muscles on the inside of the arm must contract (tense) while the muscles on the outside of the arm must relax. When moving your arm to the left the opposite occurs: the muscles on the inside of the arm must relax as the muscles on the outside contract.

Also to reduce the amount of tension in the entire arm one should aim to use a  "guiding finger" to maintain natural form thus increasing control, since if a hand keeps changing form it increases the difficulty of a piece hence increases also tension in the hand. So for instance the C to C two octaves up jump mentioned would have an increased sense of relaxation if the hand was guided by another finger instead of just the one that plays.

I would suggest use the 3rd to aim for the Bb, which is easier to aim for than the thumb(in LH) or 5th in Rh aiming for a white by itself. In this case the arm moves with two fingers giving it balance and when it strikes the guide finger which doesnt play still acts as a balance for the hand which is better than the snigle finger playing totally by itself.

This is why most of the times the opening RH in Etude La Campanella, from Liszt gives many people problems because the guiding fingers are not governed.

[will]

Thanks for the info peoples.

You can make a clockwise circle, or an anticlockwise one. In either case you are not using pairs of opposing muscles anymore.

Is one direction more suitable than the other?

The same principle applies to back and forth movements. Do not go back and forth: do a circular movement so that even though the hand may appear to move back and forth it is always moving in the same direction (either forward or backward).

What are the main back and forth movements in piano playing that should be approached in the above manner?

[qwerty quaver]

spam

[bernhard]

An excellent point by Liiw above.

Thanks for the info peoples.Is one direction more suitable than the other?

Not in general. It will depend on the passage. But if you try out, you will immediately feel the difference and know which one is better.

What are the main back and forth movements in piano playing that should be approached in the above manner?

 Back and forth movements are used to bring the thumb/little fingers – since they are the shortest fingers – to the keys (specially the black keys), since if you do not bring your arm/hand back and forth you will be twisting your hand to accomplish the placement of these fingers, and this is a definite no-no, since it is one of the major causes for wrist injuries. Again, although it looks like you are moving your hand back and forth, you should be moving in a circle either forwards or backwards, and this way you are not setting the agonist muscles against the antagonist muscles.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[will]

Chopin said RH: A GbAbBb B

E Gb Ab Bb B.

Back and forth movements are used to bring the thumb/little fingers – since they are the shortest fingers – to the keys (specially the black keys)...Again, although it looks like you are moving your hand back and forth, you should be moving in a circle either forwards or backwards, and this way you are not setting the agonist muscles against the antagonist muscles.

Thanks.

[lostinidlewonder]

eek stupid typos

[will]

Bernhard: having re-read your description on repeatedly moving from a low C to a C 3 octaves above  I am not sure I understand how to make the circular motion correctly to avoid co-contration.
   Imagine I played the C to C 3 octave above repeated pattern using clockwise circles. Does this mean  I would move along the top half of the circle when moving up to the high C (hand moves closer then away from fallboard) and would move along the bottom half of the circle when moving back to the low C (hand moves further away then closer to fallboard)?   
   I ask because this motion doesn't feel much more comfortable than a strictly side to side motion.

Thanks.

[xvimbi]

Bernhard: having re-read your description on repeatedly moving from a low C to a C 3 octaves above  I am not sure I understand how to make the circular motion correctly to avoid co-contration.
   Imagine I played the C to C 3 octave above repeated pattern using clockwise circles. Does this mean  I would move along the top half of the circle when moving up to the high C (hand moves closer then away from fallboard) and would move along the bottom half of the circle when moving back to the low C (hand moves further away then closer to fallboard)?   
   I ask because this motion doesn't feel much more comfortable than a strictly side to side motion.

Thanks.

I'll jump in here quickly, if you don't mind

To me, a circular motion always feels more comfortable than a back-and-forth motion. However, this may not come out quite clearly if you don't do it many times, rapidly and in succession. I used beating eggs as an example before. Another one is stirring a bucket of paint, i.e. something viscous that will put up some resistance. Again, stirring in a circular motion is much easier than going back and forth (for various reasons, actually).

Still, if you don't have any problems with a particular movement pattern, then there is no need to change it, so if back-and-forth feels good to you and doesn't lead to any tension, then keep on going

[will]

I'll jump in here quickly, if you don't mind

By all means, JUMP!

To me, a circular motion always feels more comfortable than a back-and-forth motion. However, this may not come out quite clearly if you don't do it many times, rapidly and in succession. I used beating eggs as an example before. Another one is stirring a bucket of paint, i.e. something viscous that will put up some resistance.

Nice comparisons, I can relate to the stirring of paint.

Again, stirring in a circular motion is much easier than going back and forth (for various reasons, actually).

Care to explain a little further or point me in the direction of some posts on the topic?

I do not understand how Bernhard describes using only the agonist muscles by moving in a circle. The two motions Bernhard mentoned in the C to C 3 octave above example  were the back and forth motion (like a windshield wiper) and the circular motion (like stirring paint).  The only difference that I can tell between these movements is the addition of a back and forth movement of the upper arm to make the circular motion. The back and forth motion of the lower arm is still there so wouldn't both the agonist and antagonist muscles still alternate?

Still, if you don't have any problems with a particular movement pattern, then there is no need to change it, so if back-and-forth feels good to you and doesn't lead to any tension, then keep on going

Just like Chief. Wiggum says 'I say if it feels good, do it.'

Regards,
Will

[xvimbi]

I do not understand how Bernhard describes using only the agonist muscles by moving in a circle. The two motions Bernhard mentoned in the C to C 3 octave above example  were the back and forth motion (like a windshield wiper) and the circular motion (like stirring paint).  The only difference that I can tell between these movements is the addition of a back and forth movement of the upper arm to make the circular motion. The back and forth motion of the lower arm is still there so wouldn't both the agonist and antagonist muscles still alternate?

Perhaps, ultimately, there must be some back-and-forth motion somwhere. I guess, the idea is, if there must be back-and-forth movement, choose wisely which muscles should do it.

Concerning the upper arm, the sterno-clavicular joint (S/C, joint between the breastbone and the collar bone), the acromio-clavicular joint (A/C, joint between shoulder blade and collar bone) and the glenohumeral joint ("shoulder joint", joint between the upper arm and the shoulder blade) all allow rotation (the A/C joint much more so than the S/C joint, a lot of rotation in the "shoulder joint"), so in principle, one could probably get away with rotation only and no back-and-forth movement.

The elbow joint, on the other hand, is a hinge joint, allowing indeed only back-and-forth movement, whereas the wrist again allows rotation.

So, I guess, one shoul minimize back-and-forth movements around the elbow joint - just like when stirring paint

[will]

Thanks for all the info xvimbi.

So, I guess, one shoul minimize back-and-forth movements around the elbow joint - just like when stirring paint

I'll experiment further with this is mind. Cheers.