Help!! My Mozart sounds like Beethoven!!!

[possom46]

Just been for my piano lesson, I am learning Mozarts Sonata in D K576 for my diploma. I am having real trouble playing delicately and neatly articulated. I seem to be bashing notes whenever there is a natural accent and am having real trouble getting into the feel of the piece. My teacher has recommended that I play my Czerny exercises staccato and maybe try sitting lower and just use the fingers (i'm using too much arm I think). Does anyone else have any recommendations please?

[steinwayguy]

Yeah, stop playing Czerny.

[rohansahai]

Well !! If your Mozart sounds like Beethoven..... in my opinion, its not a problem as long as it is musical and appeals to the listener.
But that does not seem to be what you want to say.
Your problem apparently is that it is sounding unmusical and jerky. Practice the entire piece pianissimo at all tempos. You can get more control over sound by pianissimo practice rather than fortissimo.
And I have no idea what Czerny can do to help you with this. If you are bashing notes in Mozart, you will probably do that in Czerny too.. and if you hold yourself back from doing it in Czerny, why not hold yourself back in Mozart itself?
Probably record yourself and listen first. Maybe, you are just going by the books that Mozart is not supposed to be banged out anywhere and missing the point that at some places, it sounds really good.
If it does sound bad...try the above, slow-fast pianissimo practice.

[quantum]

Maybe try more finger articulation.

Practice plaing single notes (any note) but before playing the note decide what you want it to sound like.  Play it and evaluate how close the sound came to your expectation.  Make any adjustments and try again. 

Another thing, first ridicously bang out the entire Mozart piece if you were playing Prokofiev or something.  Then ridicously play it pppppp but extreemly controlled.  Now that you have an idea of the range of touch you can achieve on your particular piano, place your desired Mozart sound inside the two extreems. 

[whynot]

I played this recently, so spent a lot of time on it.  It is difficult to sound good on this!  Someone gave me suggestions:  "a pleasing variety--contrast, elegant, charming, diverting, sophisticated," if any of those help.  I also was overaccenting, so I have two things to say about that. 

1.  In general, when I'm overaccenting, I start practicing with obvious frequent accents and then gradually stretch them apart.  I take a few lines and accent every "large" beat (every half note in 4/4 or the dotted quarters in 6/8 etc).  It's pretty crude playing! but I only do it for 15 seconds.  Then play again, this time accenting only the downbeats, so now I'm practicing using forward momentum where I used to accent.  Then accent every other downbeat.  Then only accent the natural landing place in the phrase, probably the second-to-last large beat.  Doing this once in a while really shapes up my ear, which I think is often the thing to solve more than the hands.

2.  Specifically in this piece, my first "fix" was to do the opening landing spots in tiers.  In the opening motif, there's an implied "down" after each trill, plus the next downbeat is strong.  I had to start with that last downbeat (F#) and decide how full I wanted that (I decided on pretty full, but not a big arrival yet), then back up one and make that a little less, and the note after the 1st trill a little less still.  So I had very specific sounds I was trying to make at each of those points.  Also in this piece, there's a lot of "short phrase-short phrase-LONG...." that uses the same material three times, the last time having a long extension.  So wherever you would accent within the short phrases, don't accent that same note in the long version because then the extensions won't make sense to the listener.  They won't catch the overall shape; it'll sound like three arrivals in a row plus some extra stuff tacked on, instead of two arrivals, then... wait... wait.. pushing ahead... there! arrival.  If that makes sense.  Also, if you're trying to make a different sound, try a different pedalling.  Not just for the sake of the pedalling, although that will certainly change the sound, but also because a more refined and frequent pedalling can signal the rest of the body to approach the instrument in a more refined character without you even trying.   

Something else that helps me when I'm stuck in making a sound is to re-describe it to myself.  For example, to me "mf-pp-fp" notation isn't specific enough.  If I were still playing the ms. 4 downbeat too loudly, I wouldn't write mf or whatever was less than what I'm doing.  I would write "warm," or something else that described character or feeling.  When I see the word warm, I definitely don't have the urge to bang,  I just want to bring it out a little.  The more specific I am about the sounds I'm trying to make, the easier they are to make.   I guess that's my overall response to your situation: instead of telling yourself what you shouldn't be doing,  imagine exactly how it want it be, with very specific sounds and shapes. 

If there are particular places that are bothering you, I'd be interested to hear.  I love this piece!   

Best of luck.

[pianonut]

knock the dynamics down one step - making forte = mf , etc.

realize that if you have a piano marking and then a bar or two later a forte marking, that you CAN crescendo and you don't have to suddenly play louder (as in beethoven)

pretend you are dialoging and have different characters that speak in different voices (but the same when each appears)  mozart requires consistency - but a much tighter control than beethoven on everything from tempo to touch to singing qualities and evenness of phrases (pulling it along like a kite, and not stopping and starting erratically) 

very light pedalling

don't mush any notes (with pedal or fingers)

and, last but not least - when you have a virtuosic passage (do something with it) play it extra fast and light, or phrase it by crescendoing and slowing down at the very end, etc.

don't put any more or less feeling than the composer intended.  over syruppy mozart sounds as bad as mechanical mozart.

[CC]

Try the following:

(1) Listen to a lot of good performances of Mozart.
(2) Go to an electronic piano and practice those pieces in harpsichord mode.
(3) Practice playing softly all the time; ie, expression over dynamics; however, expression is accuracy (rhythm, staccato, rests, legato, connected notes, etc.) in Mozart, not rubato.
(4) Use more flat finger positions -- ie don't use the fingertips with curled position, use the fleshy underside of the fingers.
(5) Keep the fingers on the keys as much as possible, feel the keys and feel the touch of your finger during the downstroke.
(6) Go back to the score and make sure that your playing is 100% accurate -- remember, in Mozart, EVERY marking is critical.

[teresa_b]

Hi Possum,

Funny--many a year ago I played K332 for my teacher, and she said, (and I quote)
"Gee, that was great Beethoven, now let's work on Mozart!"  So I have personal experience with your dilemma.  In the years following, I've played lots of Mozart (performed K449, K453, K459 and K488 concertos). 

I haven't done K 576, so I can't advise as to the specific piece as some have done so well above.   But I can perhaps give some "gestalt" ideas.

Look at the phrasing and the long lines--REALLY feel the line and play that rather than thinking about where the beat is.  Crescendo up the runs,  feel where the music is going and GO!  Never put harsh accents, but again, when there's a sF or big chord, etc--Mozart MEANS it, so you should not be overly powder-puffy on these.

L.H. accompaniments like Alberti base, etc, have to be consciously played softer than you think. 

I always found it helpful to get an analogy in mind, like "dancing" (worked for finale of K332).  This way, for example, you remember not to play as though you are driven to get to the end, but to dance your way through it.  Mozart is never driving. 

VERY light pedaling, as someone said.

The danger inherent in the tight control required by Mozart is that you control TOO much and forget the emotion.  After you know the piece, LET GO and play your heart out.  It will sound wonderful!

All the best, Teresa

[Jacey1973]

Just been for my piano lesson, I am learning Mozarts Sonata in D K576 for my diploma. I am having real trouble playing delicately and neatly articulated. I seem to be bashing notes whenever there is a natural accent and am having real trouble getting into the feel of the piece. My teacher has recommended that I play my Czerny exercises staccato and maybe try sitting lower and just use the fingers (i'm using too much arm I think). Does anyone else have any recommendations please?

Hey! I'm playing this sonata for my recital in June. When i started learning it my teacher told me i was playing too heavily for Mozart.

The best thing i did was VERY slow stacatto practice - you just can't beat it. It can get tiresome playing things slowly over and over again, but it really pays off in the end! When i performed it in a performance seminar the other day my lecturer told me i had a "Mozart sound". I was quite impressed thinking back to when i first learnt it! Also try playing small passages in different rhythms - this is good for eveness and try alternating the articulation.

Your teacher has the right idea but why bother doing this to your Czerny exercises - when you could learn exactly the same technique and at the same time get to know the Mozart?!

I've found this piece really challenging - when i researched it for my programme notes i found it is often compared to the concertos because of its technical hurdles - apparently more technically difficult than any of the other sonatas. But i find it a really enjoyable sonata - even though i still find the last movement pretty challenging (mainly stamina-wise after the 1st 2 movements!)

[Jacey1973]

very light pedalling

I wouldn't (well i don't) use the pedal at all for the first and third movements (although you possibly might need a slight touch on the more lyrical/slower passage in the latter movement - although i rely on my fingers overlapping the notes to do this).

For the 2nd movement you need very little pedal, and in the LH accompanying chords (at the bottom of the 1st page ABRSM edition) i pedal every single chord so that the beautiful, lamenting RH melody stays clear.

[possom46]

I wouldn't (well i don't) use the pedal at all for the first and third movements (although you possibly might need a slight touch on the more lyrical/slower passage in the latter movement - although i rely on my fingers overlapping the notes to do this).

For the 2nd movement you need very little pedal, and in the LH accompanying chords (at the bottom of the 1st page ABRSM edition) i pedal every single chord so that the beautiful, lamenting RH melody stays clear.

That's exactly what i'm doing!!!

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies, it's already starting to sound better. I spent yesterday doing the housework listening to Mozart CD's (something I must do more of when learning a new piece), and have practised it on my electronic keyboard with harpsichord sound which gave me an entirely new view of the piece. I do think that I have been so focused on accuracy that i've lost sight of the "music" and am looking forward to getting to that stage once i've mastered the technique abit better. Czerny is back on the shelf at the moment and i'm practising the piece staccato instead. Btw, i've only recently started playing exercises, up until now I found that my technique improved just through playing lots of different music 

[rhapsody in orange]

Hey I'm doing this piece now too! Hmm any recommendations for recordings to listen to?

[possom46]

Hey I'm doing this piece now too! Hmm any recommendations for recordings to listen to?

The only one i've come across so far is the Alfred Brendal recording. If you do a search for the sonata on Amazon the CD will come up and you can preview the recordings.

[rhapsody in orange]

Hmm I have Brendel's recording of some mozart sonatas but unfortunately not this particular one. Would try and check that out soon though. Thanks anyway. =)

[sznitzeln]

Since everyone is giving you pianistic advice, I advise you to rent and watch "Amadeus". Try to understand him and his music. It has a almost mocking superiority and at the same time filled with the greatest expression of love.
I also suggest you to watch the magic flute in some language you can understand.
I dont know any composer whose music has so strong love as Mozarts.
When you'll see this you will not want to play it like Beethoven.

[happyface94]

Funny, my teacher just gave me the same advice when I was playing the 23rd Concerto (I think). Apparently I sounded too serious in my music. How did I fix it? I simply played deeper in my notes while keeping a delicate touch.

[halfstone]

I'm just working on that piece, and my teacher called for he calles a classical "leggiero" touch. As I understand him it's about letting air between notes in all this runs. Now I looked this up in 'Mastering Piano Technique' by Seymour Fink and he says:

'This is accomplished with close, snapping fingers backed by quiet, gently scooping hands with high wrists; the resulting sonority is softer, quicker and more sensitive than possible with bouncing hands.'

I think that's a good point about playing Mozart.

Hallstein